A.W. Tozer on the JSOC and Outer Darkness

[Rufus_1611]

That was the beginning of wisdom, absolutely. But I got saved and no longer fear God, because I have been reconciled to Him by Jesus, and his love is in me. Maybe you should give it a shot? It's really nice on this side of the fence.

I still have awe and reverence for God, even a "Godly" fear, if you will, because his righteousness is beyond even my imagination. But I do not fear punishment at all. I cry, "Abba, Father".

No truer words could be said.

 

[James_Newman]

1. Grammar rather is governed by context. Are we really talking about the same thing.

2. I encourage you to review your Clinton excerpt, for his folly was a combination of both, not just one thing.

I'm going to have to draw a picture.
Lets see, if I make a statement like this:
'The sun is hot.'
You would probably understand me to be saying the star we call the sun is hot temperature wise. Now I could change the meaning of this 'out of context' statement...
'I made some spicy tortillas in the shape of the sun and planets of our solar system. I put more cayenne pepper in the larger tortillas. The sun is hot.'

Now you can see that the sun is a tortilla and hot is spicy, not temperature. But the sun is still literally hot. Maybe I could make it mean that somebody stole the tortilla, but the sun would still be literally 'hot'. A man 'is' justified by works according to James. You can fiddle with works, and you can fiddle with justified by context. But you can't do a whole lot with is.

 

[Accountable]

That was the beginning of wisdom, absolutely. But I got saved and no longer fear God, because I have been reconciled to Him by Jesus, and his love is in me. Maybe you should give it a shot? It's really nice on this side of the fence.

I still have awe and reverence for God, even a "Godly" fear, if you will, because his righteousness is beyond even my imagination. But I do not fear punishment at all. I cry, "Abba, Father".

Proverbs 3:7 We should have reverential fear.
Also remember something in Hebrews like "knowing the terror of the Lord"
We do not disagree with this. What are you trying to say?

 

[Amy.G]

Luke 6:25
25 Woe unto you that are full for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

It's sad that a brother can tell another brother to castrate himself, and a sister in Christ would think that was funny.

I apologize James. NP is a clown and I understand his humor, but I did not mean to offend you. It is not my intention to hurt you or anyone else.

 

[James_Newman]

Nope. It's being told by Jesus, "I never knew you" and getting tossed somewhere not for 1,000 years, but for eternity. And by "eternity" I do not mean "age-during".

Please sir, what must I do to be saved?

 

[npetreley]

I'm going to have to draw a picture.
Lets see, if I make a statement like this:
'The sun is hot.'
You would probably understand me to be saying the star we call the sun is hot temperature wise. Now I could change the meaning of this 'out of context' statement...
'I made some spicy tortillas in the shape of the sun and planets of our solar system. I put more cayenne pepper in the larger tortillas. The sun is hot.'

Now you can see that the sun is a tortilla and hot is spicy, not temperature. But the sun is still literally hot. Maybe I could make it mean that somebody stole the tortilla, but the sun would still be literally 'hot'. A man 'is' justified by works according to James. You can fiddle with works, and you can fiddle with justified by context. But you can't do a whole lot with is.

"The sun is hot!"

"Hey, dudes, which planets or stars do you like? I like Jupiter, and I like Alpha Century. Venus is cool. The sun is hot!"

For the record, Venus is NOT cool. You'd fry if you stood on the surface.

Context trumps grammar.

 

[James_Newman]

I apologize James. NP is a clown and I understand his humor, but I did not mean to offend you. It is not my intention to hurt you or anyone else.

I'm not easily offended sister, no harm done. What is sad is that these are the types of things that the bible admonishes against, and yet he is able to say them without any remorse because he doesn't think he will have to answer for it. Even though the bible says we will give account for every idle word, it shows that that warning has little meaning to him because he doesn't fear any consequences for what he says when he stands before God.

 

[TCGreek]

I'm going to have to draw a picture.
Lets see, if I make a statement like this:
'The sun is hot.'
You would probably understand me to be saying the star we call the sun is hot temperature wise. Now I could change the meaning of this 'out of context' statement...
'I made some spicy tortillas in the shape of the sun and planets of our solar system. I put more cayenne pepper in the larger tortillas. The sun is hot.'

Now you can see that the sun is a tortilla and hot is spicy, not temperature. But the sun is still literally hot. Maybe I could make it mean that somebody stole the tortilla, but the sun would still be literally 'hot'. A man 'is' justified by works according to James. You can fiddle with works, and you can fiddle with justified by context. But you can't do a whole lot with is.

1. Context controls words meaning, which are put together to form sentences, to form paragrahs, etc.

2. "A man is justified by works," but what do you mean James?

3. That seems to be the next question we must ask in light of the CONTEXT.

 

[J. Jump]

Nope. It's being told by Jesus, "I never knew you" and getting tossed somewhere not for 1,000 years, but for eternity. And by "eternity" I do not mean "age-during".

Okay so now you are questioning our salvation. I'm pretty sure that is a Board no-no.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Okay so now you are questioning our salvation. I'm pretty sure that is a Board no-no.

I would pray that telling folks to castrate themselves would be too. However, it does show the logical conclusion of their theology.

 

[James_Newman]

1. Context controls words meaning, which are put together to form sentences, to form paragrahs, etc.

2. "A man is justified by works," but what do you mean James?

3. That seems to be the next question we must ask in light of the CONTEXT.

Now explain how context, and not your presupposition, is where you are getting your definition for 'is'.

 

[npetreley]

Please sir, what must I do to be saved?

Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him only.

I know you'll say that's what you do, but you don't. You want to trust in your works, too.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I don't uderstand the question. Punitive means to inflict punishment. What is your point?

Does chastizement also inflict punishment?

 

[James_Newman]

Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him only.

I know you'll say that's what you do, but you don't. You want to trust in your works, too.

You mean I can believe on Christ, and I will still be saved even if I go out and sin really bad? I hope that's what you mean by trusting in Christ and Him only. Thats what I mean.

 

[TCGreek]

Now explain how context, and not your presupposition, is where you are getting your definition for 'is'.

Precisely because one wishes to ignore the context, presuppositions are appealed to. Try that on for size.

 

[npetreley]

You mean I can believe on Christ, and I will still be saved even if I go out and sin really bad?

And what does that have to do with anything? Why are you obsessed with the possibility that Christians may sin "really bad"? And why does that drive your interpretation of what it means to be saved?

 

[TCGreek]

I would pray that telling folks to castrate themselves would be too. However, it does show the logical conclusion of their theology.

Then you prove that you do not understand our theology.

 

[James_Newman]

Precisely because one wishes to ignore the context, presuppositions are appealed to. Try that on for size.

I'm perfectly willing to consider context, if you can show me how it should be changing my understanding of 'man is justified by works'. I think you should allow that verse to affect your understanding of verse 18. James is appealing for a man to add works to his faith because he will be justified by works.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Where did you get, Grammar trumps context? I'm awaiting that answer.

If the context you come up with contradicts the grammar, then your context is a pretext.

 

[James_Newman]

And what does that have to do with anything? Why are you obsessed with the possibility that Christians may sin "really bad"? And why does that drive your interpretation of what it means to be saved?

Because you will always have to add a caveat to Christ's blood. Trust on Christ and His blood and you will be saved IF...