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A.W. Tozer

kyredneck

kyredneck

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timdabap said:
is attributed with the following quote:
"Death is just a change of address. But what you believe will determine what neighborhood you end up in."
Do you agree ? Why ?
If not, why ?
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In the 'eternal' sense, what I believe may be an indicator of where I'm headed but it doesn't 'determine' where I'm headed, the blood of the Lamb determines that. However, what I believe' does have a huge impact on the state of my being while in this 'temporal' realm, example: on Passover night in Egypt the faith of the firstborn had zilch to do with whether the blood of the lamb worked, it did however determine whether or not the firstborn rested that night.
 
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asterisktom

asterisktom

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M

Martin Marprelate

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I think it is probably fair to say that Tozer was somewhat too exposed to the mystics, but I found this quote from Iain Murrays biography of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones (vol. 2; page 285). MLlJ had both spoken at a conference in Canada in 1956:

'This was to be the only time that Dr Lloyd-Jones met A.W. Tozer whose books he had recommended in England since 1952> Speaking of the conference at its close, he said:

"I shall ever look back to it as being unique in my experience because I have had the privilege of sharing in the ministry with Dr Tozer. Ever since I read a book by him I have felt that he is one of the very few great prophetic voices in the Church today, and in the modern world, and I have looked forward for years to meeting him and to have the pleasure and privilege of listening to him. His books have whetted my appetite, but having heard him now actually in the flesh I see that even his books do not do him full justice."'

I think that Tozer is like every good Christian writer; there is much that one can learn from him, but one has to eat the fruit and spit out the pips.

At least he did not deny the future glorious return of the Lord Jesus.
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

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Martin Marprelate said:
At least he did not deny the future glorious return of the Lord Jesus.
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Oh good grief,

You have this in common with Tozer: You read the Bible through the filter of fallible men. For him it is the mystics. For you it is the creeds and confessions.

Other than writing this I do not want to derail this thread from someone else. If you absolutely need to address my supposed heresy start your own thread.
 
A

AustinC

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@Martin Marprelate, I fully agree with this analysis you gave.

"I think that Tozer is like every good Christian writer; there is much that one can learn from him, but one has to eat the fruit and spit out the pips."

For years I did not realize there were pips.
 
V

Van

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Dr. Tozer rejected at least some tenets of the Doctrines of Grace. Good for him. He also thought we should not spend all our time in the furrows of other people.

1) Christ died for all people, providing the means of salvation for humanity.

2) The lost are able to hear and understand and learn from the word of God, and were not totally blinded by the consequence of original sin.

Sounds like he actually read his bible...
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
timdabap said:
"Death is just a change of address. But what you believe will determine what neighborhood you end up in."
Do you agree ? Why ?
If not, why ?
Click to expand...
Did you catch that?
"....what you believe will determine..."

The Lord is the one who determines where a person ends up, not us.
Please see Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:6-24, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, John 6:37-65.

Doctrine does not save, God does.
He doesn't leave things to us and our works, or our beliefs, or our decisions and desires in order to decide who to save.

Salvation is His work, and His alone.
 
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timdabap

timdabap

Member
AustinC said:
Death is an enemy of God. It is a direct result of human rebellion against God.
We whom God has redeemed have no fear of death because the faith God gave us justifies us before the Holy Judge. Those who trusted in their own behavior fear death because payment is due and they cannot pay the debt.

Tozer was a legalist. His phrase is a simple expression not meant to be theological but meant to frighten people to respond to his preaching.
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judging from his popularity among many theologians, looks like he succeeded.
 
timdabap

timdabap

Member
AustinC said:
@Martin Marprelate, I fully agree with this analysis you gave.

"I think that Tozer is like every good Christian writer; there is much that one can learn from him, but one has to eat the fruit and spit out the pips."

For years I did not realize there were pips.
Click to expand...

pips ? as in picture in picture ? (just kidding, but....who knows,,,)
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
If the gift has your name on it and is given to you, personally, by the one who purchased it, then it is received as an act of grace through faith.

If the gift is an unmarked package, left at a general location that you had to search for, then figure out if you should even open it or consider it yours. If you had to determine whether to open it up by yourself...then it is your work and not really a gift as much as it is an unmarked package you claimed for yourself.
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Are you saying that the Atonement is not a gift sometimes? God failed then.
 
timtofly

timtofly

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Van said:
I am sorry, but the above does not reflect what I stated with clarity. Try addressing my view.

And the choice to believe is required to believe rather than reject. And as pointed out by others, if salvation can be received by our choice, then where does God crediting our faith fit into your view?
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Accepting God's gift is Salvation.

Obeying God is living by faith.

Your view equates obedience to God with Salvation. That means Moses is in sheol contrary to appearing on the mount of Transfiguration. Was he brought out of torment? Moses disobeyed God. Or did his obedience outway his disobedience? Or perhaps he simply accepted the Atonement, and his faith in obedience to God is not equated to his personal salvation?
 
V

Van

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timtofly said:
Accepting God's gift is Salvation.

Obeying God is living by faith.

Your view equates obedience to God with Salvation. That means Moses is in sheol contrary to appearing on the mount of Transfiguration. Was he brought out of torment? Moses disobeyed God. Or did his obedience outweigh his disobedience? Or perhaps he simply accepted the Atonement, and his faith in obedience to God is not equated to his personal salvation?
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One absurd and false claim after another.

Did you address how God crediting our faith fits into your view? Nope -

Accepting God's gift is not salvation as Soils #2 and 3 of Matthew 13 document.

Yes, obeying God is living by faith, not at issue.

My view does not equate obedience to God with Salvation. My view equates God crediting or not our faith as righteousness with Salvation. We do not save ourselves, God chooses to save us or not. Salvation depends of God alone, Romans 9:16

Moses gained approval by faith. But Moses did wait in Abraham's bosom, as did the rest of the OT Saints until Christ died and then was led by Jesus to heaven. There is no requirement stated in scripture whereby those spirits in Abraham's bosom could not, by the Almighty, be brought temporarily to the transfiguration. Thus your assertion has no basis in scripture or logic.
 
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