Abc 20/20

[Don]

Missed this last night (Friday, 8 April).

http://abcnews.go.com/2020

20/20 did a segment on Trinity Baptist Church and Chuck Phelps' cover-up of a rape of a 15-year old girl. I became aware of the episode because someone then e-mailed a website I manage, with the claim that they now know about our despicable IFB church and our teachings.

I'm sitting here wondering, how do people like Chuck Phelps continue to be pastors? Are we IFBers such simple, blind sheep that we don't read the bible for ourselves, and realize that pastors are people, too, with the same failings and poor judgment?

And I'm sitting here wondering, how many more e-mails am I going to get condemning all IFB churches because 20/20 went to one IFB church, and painted the worst possible picture they could?

 

[Amy.G]

I saw the show last night and the first thing I though of was my IFB Baptist Board friends and how things like this make people think that all IFB's are corrupt. It was another black eye on Christianity and the name of Christ.
I don't know any IFB's personally, my world is very small, but those I know here on this board are certainly not like what was portrayed on the 20/20 report.

That man should be in jail and so should the rapist. I was glad to see that the victim has married and still attends church and loves the Lord. That is amazing.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I am in shock over two things (I just watched this)

1) - First and foremost - at the sin and cover-up which apparently took place here. If, as it appears, the allegations are true, there needs to be serious consequences for the guilty parties.

2) - and I should not be shocked at this - ABC's attempt to broad brush every church in the IFB movement as the same.

This could have tremendous repercussions.

 

[Don]

There were two major points that keep coming back to me (I still haven't watched the whole segment; I need to watch the parts about spanking).

1) How many other IFB churches did 20/20 contact, in order to at least show some kind of "fairness" in their reporting? From what I've watched, they contacted only the two pastors. How hard is it to open up a phone book and make some phone calls??

2) Is it my imagination, or did they really gloss over the mother's part in all this? Maybe it didn't leave an impression, but I haven't seen anything about "parental responsibility" and this mother's failure.

 

[Don]

And yeah, Roger, I believe Chuck Phelps should be charged with aiding and abetting.

I'm not sure how I feel about Fuller, allowing the girl's step-father, a known, registered sex offender, to be part of the congregation without ensuring that anyone who sent their children (no matter what age) into any events where he might be present.

Might be harsh on my part, but I think I'd have had the gentleman, upon his release from prison and return to the church, stand before the church and talk to them about his reformation. But then I'd talk to him about having an accountability partner, and being closely supervised at all church events. If he didn't agree to those terms, he's free to worship elsewhere.

We have a duty to worry about the physical safety of our church members, as well as the reputation of Christ.

 

[Jerome]

Chuck Phelps is serving as the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship's "Vice Chairman"

http://www.fbfi.org/representatives-aboutus-107/officers-aboutus-64

 

[Zenas]

I will never understand how a pastor can attain such power over his congregation. If our pastor called someone out like that on Sunday morning, he would be confronted by a half dozen or so deacons on Monday morning and asked to leave. If he refused, he would be voted out at the next business meeting. I can't think of a single member who would tolerate that kind of bahavior.

 

[abcgrad94]

This could have tremendous repercussions.

As it well should. IFB's have prided themselves too long on being "independent" and not being held accountable to anyone. It's past time to hold these hypocrites accountable. Growing up as IFB, I've seen PLENTY of this garbage from the Hyles-Anderson, BJU, Ambassador Baptist College crowd. It is a crying shame the victims cannot get help from their own denomination, but must go to the secular media to get the recognition and help they deserve.

I find it interesting that IFB's have certain circles with whom they associate and fellowship, but whenever something happens, they suddenly claim their independence and wash their hands of the offending party so as not to contaminate their own spotless garments.

Instead of worrying how this will blemish the Baptist, particularly the IFB, we should offer help and healing and love to those who have been hurt and abused. And yes, I speak as one who was raised in an abusive IFB home and survived to try to help others do the same!

 

[Jerome]

The sister of the founder of the "Young Fundamentalist" Sharper Iron board was also interviewed. It was intimated that he had molested her.

 

[Thousand Hills]

2) - and I should not be shocked at this - ABC's attempt to broad brush every church in the IFB movement as the same.

Not familar with the whole story, but watched the intro to the 20/20 segment and I knew this was how it would turn out. So I didn't watch it.

 

[Amy.G]

As it well should. IFB's have prided themselves too long on being "independent" and not being held accountable to anyone. It's past time to hold these hypocrites accountable. Growing up as IFB, I've seen PLENTY of this garbage from the Hyles-Anderson, BJU, Ambassador Baptist College crowd. It is a crying shame the victims cannot get help from their own denomination, but must go to the secular media to get the recognition and help they deserve.

I find it interesting that IFB's have certain circles with whom they associate and fellowship, but whenever something happens, they suddenly claim their independence and wash their hands of the offending party so as not to contaminate their own spotless garments.

Instead of worrying how this will blemish the Baptist, particularly the IFB, we should offer help and healing and love to those who have been hurt and abused. And yes, I speak as one who was raised in an abusive IFB home and survived to try to help others do the same!

I had no idea all that went on in the IFB. How sad.

 

[Don]

I believe Roger used the term, "broad brush"....

I'm not trying to take from abcgrad's ordeal; I truly believe what she wrote, because I've seen it, too. But I've also seen a LOT of people who have come out from those churches and schools who did not turn out that way.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

This is sad, but it is a consequence of IFB pastoral unaccountability. Blind faith in "the man of God" will always lead to self-willed authoritarianism. ALL who were involved should serve time in jail.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Too many people rely on the preacher rather than the guidance of the Holy Spirit to teach them right from wrong. People often want a set of rules to follow rathar than a set of guidelines that must be interpreted through the eyes of mercy and compassion. Why didn't the congregation stand up and say something?? Because they were afraid. The members said so and it took the THIRTEEN YEARS to get the courage to read the Bible for themselves and to act on what the Holy Spirit had been telling them for so long!

I was raised in similar churches(some ifb and some not) and suffered similar (though not sexual) abuse that was ignored by the pastorate. I've had pastors who thought they were God's gift to the congregation and by God the congregation was going to give them what they were due! (not for long!) This stuff happens because good people who know better don't take a stand for what is right!

All of that said, the reporter used the words "some IFB churches" often and with emphasis. IFB churches that don't want to be lumped in with the bad ones need to take a good long look at their practices.

Is there a policy in place to screen people with criminal records before putting them in leadership positions? (my SBC church has them)

Does the church condone child abuse by holding the parent to be the ultimate authority over the child? (this one is tricky, but is the reason my pastor ignored my situation(1970's). There must be some mechinism for taking a child seriously that reports abuse)

Are their mechinisms in place so that a new preacher coming in knows the history of the membership? One thing that concerned me in this story was that the current preacher seemed blindsided when told that he had not one but TWO sex offenders in his church and that one of them was singing in the choir right next to his fav victim. It seems he rectified the problem, but why didn't he already know this stuff? Because whoever called him didn't tell him!

Most Baptist churches are independent. Being independent is not the problem. Congregations that don't take seriously their duties to each other and their pastors are the problem. This story? Just one of many across many denominations, not just IFB's.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Well said. IFBers are taught that they are sheep in need of the pastor's shepherding. I heard the "all we are like sheep" verse more times than I could possible count, but NEVER heard a single sermon on the priesthood of the believer or our spiritual liberty in Christ. It is a form of spiritual welfare. The people don't speak up because they have been trained to follow the "man of God" without thinking. Any questioning is shot down as "pastor bashing" or spreading dissent. Those who act like sheep shouldn't be surprised when they are treated like sheep. My family's pastor left the church after almost destroying it thru poor leadership & mishandling of funds, and yet they still won't question his "calling" or spiritual maturity. The entire church in the OP holds some culpability for the situation.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Sadly, much of the broad brush that will impact many of our churches is well-aimed. There is a "managawd" mentality where sin is covered.

God said this "would not prosper" and it must be stopped as the reproach on our precious Savior will turn many from truth.

Remember, that "ifb" is a broad term. Fred Phelps in Kansas is ifb. Chuck Phelps (cover-up), Jack/Dave Hyles (massive immorality), Bob Gray (pedophile) are all "poster boys" of the IFB's most evil side.

If even a very slanted/biased liberal 20/20 report is to have benefit, it will be for each of our churches to walk more circumspectly and truly demonstrate Christ to our culture.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

If even a very slanted/biased liberal 20/20 report is to have benefit, it will be for each of our churches to walk more circumspectly and truly demonstrate Christ to our culture.

This is key, and though you are correct that in some ways this broad brush is welled aimed, we need to be aware that thousands of churches and pastors who consider themselves independent, fundamental, and baptist are nothing like the men mentioned in your post above.

In this particular place there is no excuse for making a 15 year old girl confess to 'her part' in the evil perpetuated against her. There is never any excuse for this kind of reprehensible behaviour. There is no excuse for making the victim accept and confess a part of the blame.

 

[stilllearning]

This “news” program made me sick to my stomach, but it is interesting, who Satan is using ABC to target in these last days; (IFB Churches), who interpret the Bible literally and teach wives to be in subjection to their own husbands, etc.
1 Corinthians 16:9
“For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and [there are] many adversaries.”

For sure children should be spanked(not beaten), and women should dress in modist apparel(as the Lord leads them), and husbands should take the headship in their homes.

But in light of stories like this, these good and wholesome instructions, will be looked down upon as barbaric.

Those of us who are fighting the good fight of faith and following God’s instructions, must ignore all such propaganda.

And remember that this kind of stuff is coming from a lost and dying Christ rejecting world in Spiritual darkness. Just as the wicked actions of some of the men in this Church were.

The clear intent of this story is to turn all the other “good Christians” against anything that looks like an IFB Church.
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All those who believe everything they see on TV and allow it to form their opinion about good Churches, are a sad casualty in today’s Spiritual warfare.

 

[exscentric]

http://www.drchuckphelps.com/

 

[tinytim]

This “news” program made me sick to my stomach, but it is interesting, who Satan is using ABC to target in these last days; (IFB Churches), who interpret the Bible literally and teach wives to be in subjection to their own husbands, etc.
1 Corinthians 16:9
“For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and [there are] many adversaries.”

For sure children should be spanked(not beaten), and women should dress in modist apparel(as the Lord leads them), and husbands should take the headship in their homes.

But in light of stories like this, these good and wholesome instructions, will be looked down upon as barbaric.

Those of us who are fighting the good fight of faith and following God’s instructions, must ignore all such propaganda.

And remember that this kind of stuff is coming from a lost and dying Christ rejecting world in Spiritual darkness. Just as the wicked actions of some of the men in this Church were.

The clear intent of this story is to turn all the other “good Christians” against anything that looks like an IFB Church.
--------------------------------------------------
All those who believe everything they see on TV and allow it to form their opinion about good Churches, are a sad casualty in today’s Spiritual warfare.

ABC is not turning people against IFB churches..

Godly Christians are seeing the IFB churches for what they are... and the IFBs are turning away Godly christians...