Abortion Doctors and the Media

[Phillip]

Did any of you catch 20/20 last night with Barbara Walters making light of Christians because they are killling abortionists in the name of God? They interviewed -- what they called an "ordained minister" who preaches on the web but has a terrorist group similar to bin Ladens who will act at his commmand even if it means blowing up a clinic. He was interviewed and said, I would rather see a dead abortionists than a dead baby.

In my humble opinion (I am STRONGLY AGAINST abortion), but this is NOT the way to stop it. We must stop it legally, with love and with legislation. Plus, if we would get revival started in the U.S. as years gone by, the doctors would go out of business because girls would do the right thing. I think Satan uses a few radicals to destroy the integrity of all Good Christians and the news media does NOT care if they take us down with them. They prey off of individual outrageous incidents.

This is my opinion. Let me know what you think about taking this matter into our own hands and sinning to stop the murders of innocent children----is that what Jesus would do? In this case, maybe we don't do what Jesus would do--remember, Jesus HAS the power of judgement over this world. We have yet to be given that power. Tell me what you think.

God Bless

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Barnabas ]

 

[JAMES2]

Phillip:
Just as evil as the "doctor" who murders babies. The so-called "ordained" minister must be a lunatic.
Like you, I am also against anyone killing their children.I am against child-sacrifice (abortion) for ANY reason whatsover.
A person can call it what they want -- "the right to my body," "my reproductive right," "terminating a pregnancy"--whatever. The fact is abortion is the modern-day version of child-sacrifice. It is the sacrificing of the child to the god of this world, to the god of self, the god of women rights, the god of materialism, the god of convenience, the god of lifestyle, etc.

However, I put the people that bomb abortion clinics or kill doctors in the same lunatic class as the child-sacrifice doctors. I can't see a bit of difference between the two.

[ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

[Roy]

Do you think that AIDS might be sent from God as restitution for the sacrifice of innocents to the god of promiscuity? You know what I mean...a life for a life?

When I hear of abortion doctors being killed, my feelings are about the same as when I hear of robbers being killed in the commission of their crimes. They are sometimes brought to a tragic end because of the wrong choices which they made in life.

 

[TomVols]

No one, and I mean no one, who is genuinely pro-life would advocate or approve of the murder of an abortion doctor.

 

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roy:
Do you think that AIDS might be sent from God as restitution for the sacrifice of innocents to the god of promiscuity? You know what I mean...a life for a life?

When I hear of abortion doctors being killed, my feelings are about the same as when I hear of robbers being killed in the commission of their crimes. They are sometimes brought to a tragic end because of the wrong choices which they made in life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do understand your feelings, but to make the right decision we have to look at the Word of God and use the old saying: "What would Jesus do in this circumstance". Jesus was rebuked for eating with sinners of his time and he said: "I am here to help the sick (unrightous-unsaved), not the righteous.

Jesus expects us to love our enemies and to not only pray for them, but to also convert them to Christ. If you convert a robber to Christ, he changes his life and he a jail cell is no longer needed--not only that, he is likely to witness to his friends who have the same lifestyle and they are more likely to listen to him than a Sunday Suited Christian. Be careful how you feel towards people and remember Job and his friends who said "You must have sinned because God must be punishing you." Also remember Jesus was asked "What did the blind man do to make him be punished with blindness." and Jesus answered that he was made blind to glorify Him (Jesus) not because of any sin. We must be very careful judging the lives of people and what happens to them. It may be to help them grow as Christians rather than punishment. We don't know God's plans for other people and all we can do is pray and witness. Personally, I feel bad when a person is killed committing a crime, because that is likely a soul that will spend eternity in hell and it is possible that I could have crossed his path one day in the past and failed in my chance to witness to him. Therefore, God will hold ME responsible, too.

 

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
No one, and I mean no one, who is genuinely pro-life would advocate or approve of the murder of an abortion doctor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree with you and James2. "Vengence is mine sayth the Lord."

My problem is not only these nut cases, but the way the news media is now portraying Christians. I think we must be nearing the end-times simply because we as Christians are getting ready to see prosecution from the general population like we have never seen before. If people think I'm kidding, wait 10 years and watch the change, or look back in the past ten years and see how Christianity has been portrayed. It is scary and I personally think that Satan uses these jerks to give the news media something to use to make Christians look like we are all a bunch of hateful people. We see it in new words like homophobia. All Christians are now "hate" groups simply because we do not believe in the gay lifestyle, even if we pray for the sinners redemption---complaining about the sin is enough. It is only going to get worse before the Lord returns. So, as Paul says we need the entire armour of God.

 

[Don]

The abortion doctor woke up one morning and said, "I murdered a human being."

The guy who assassinated an abortion doctor woke up one morning and said, "I murdered a human being."

I am SO against abortion; but I am also SO against breaking a commandment (murder) in the name of "doing right."

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phillip:


I do understand your feelings, but to make the right decision we have to look at the Word of God and use the old saying: "What would Jesus do in this circumstance". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not so sure that Jesus would be as nice as you. He whipped the moneychangers and trashed their equipment, and one day he will throw the abortion doctors into the lake of fire to be punished eternally for their heinous crimes against the most innocent among us.

 

[JAMES2]

Hi everyone:
I pretty much agree with all of you. Phillip, I might ask "What Did Jesus Do" in place of what would he do, but I agree with your comments.
Is AIDs a punishment from God for a immoral lifestyle. I don't know, but it might be. Not just for homosexual behavior, but for people living together and all the other sins. What about the World Trade Center. This is a God-hating generation and I think the time is close when God is going to "evict" the sinners from His hotel.
I think the whole world is under the judgment of God. There is so much sin and rebellion.

As for the media, I can hardly stand to watch it anymore. But then, what should I expect from people that are in the kingdom of darkness instead of the kingdom of light.

Generally, tho, I think we all agree. Killing to protest killing is God dishonoring and a contradiction in terms.
James2

 

[JAMES2]

Roy:
I understand your feelings about abortion "doctors", but we need to pray for them and let God judge them for their evil deeds. I think there will be a special rung of hell reserved for such brutality.

But, remember, sin is sin, whether it is killing robbers, babies, the mentally retarded, the old, the sick or anyone else.

We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. I thank God that ALL is grace and He is Sovereign.

God Bless
James2

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Even abortion doctors could repent and be saved. Killing them takes away that chance.

 

[JAMES2]

Mr Curtis:
I agree. There have been some doctors that have realized they were so wrong and ended up speaking out for the Pro Life side. Praise God. Even the lady in RoevWade became a Christian and now speaks out against abortion. God is good and he lavishes His grace on those that love Him.

James2

 

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:


I'm not so sure that Jesus would be as nice as you. He whipped the moneychangers and trashed their equipment, and one day he will throw the abortion doctors into the lake of fire to be punished eternally for their heinous crimes against the most innocent among us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So, explain to me exactly what you would do if you had an abortion doctor with you in a hotel room and you had two items: a Bible and a gun? Assume there will be no earthly punishment for your actions no matter what you do in the room.

 

[Roy]

Phillip: Thank you for opening this thread. It is a good one. I try to look at a lot of different things,in sorting out my feelings on abortion. We know that it is the willful taking of innocent life, just as the NAZI holocost was.

If we had been living in NAZI Germany, as Christians with full knowledge of the attrocities that were going on, what would have been the proper response?

1. Do anything you can to stop it.

2. Pray for the nation's leaders and trust
the sovereignty of God.

3. Be a good little Christian and stay out
of politics.

Something that really bothers me about our responses to our problem (abortion) is what if The Lord tarries in His return and things get right for a while. What will the members of that future generation think of the way we handled our holocost?

 

[Phillip]

Good point Roy. I still see two problems in handling the situation ourselves. One is that it is murder for us to do the same thing and we are required in Romans 13:1-7 (I believe) to follow the laws of our land. The second problem is being seen by non-Christians as kooks that are just as evil as the people we are dealing with.

I agree that something must be done, I think we SHOULD get involved in politics and try our best to get Roe Vs. Wade overturned as soon as we possibly can do it. I think we should be pro-active and show love to girls who need help and are scared to do anything else. I don't know that actual harassing a clinic is going to do much good, but I certainly don't condemn a Christian for trying as long as they follow the laws.

Remember, Jesus could have destroyed all of the Jews in Jerusalem (except his followers) for not believing in Him. But, he took the high-road and choose death by crucificion to save our souls.

Yes, we have a holocost going on. We need to have prayer groups and groups that write to Senators and congressmen and try to raise money for lobbyists for Washington. If we do everything we can in this manner, I think history will show Christians as doing what they could within the laws of God to correct the problem.

Just my opinion. God Bless you for a fine thought provoking post.

 

[garpier]

I have to agree with those who say that murdering an abortionists is no different than the murder of the unborn. We must pray and work to overturn the ludicrous laws that allow abortion to continue. If that is accomplished then we can use our legal system to punish the baby murderers. Until that happens we are only taking the law into our own hands if we murder abortionists or destroy their clinics. It gives Christians a bad name.

Phillip said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If people think I'm kidding, wait 10 years and watch the change, or look back in the past ten years and see how Christianity has been portrayed. It is scary and I personally think that Satan uses these jerks to give the news media something to use to make Christians look like we are all a bunch of hateful people. We see it in new words like homophobia. All Christians are now "hate" groups simply because we do not believe in the gay lifestyle, even if we pray for the sinners redemption---complaining about the sin is enough. It is only going to get worse before the Lord returns. So, as Paul says we need the entire armour of God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He is absolutely right. Just lookat the furor caused by George Bush when he spoke on the campus of BJU. Now I have never been to BJU, nor do I agree with everything they stand for. However, I do not see them as being a hatemongering group who have the killing of abortionists or other leftwingers as a part of their mission. They are for the most part God honoring men and women who are trying to teach the Bible as they understand it and to prepare young men and women for their chosen careers. Yet look at the way they have been portrayed by the media. That will be the norm in ten years for every Bible believing Christian unless God intervenes in our land and sends full blown revival as He has in years long past. I believe we ought to pray and work towards that end.

Gary

 

[Miss Bobbie]

For what it's worth, I can offer a reason WHY some doctors (who, you remember, take that Hippocratic Oath to "first do no harm" and all that) get themselves involved with abortions. It pays BIG! My own OB/GYN did abortions (25 years ago) to make enough money to open his own office. I couldn't believe it when I heard that from a friend of mine, until I asked him myself.

Maybe some doctors see it as a necessary evil to get themselves where they want to be? Which, of course, doesn't make it right. And don't think I'm defending the perpetrators, either - I'm not. Only God can give life, and only God can take it.

Look at the current Supreme Court. Clarence Thomas has either said, or as much as said, that they're just waiting for an opportunity to review the decision that made this baby-killing legal. And again, "legal" has nothing to do with "right."

Confession - I once did volunteer work in an abortion clinic. (I was young and S*T*U*P*I*D and did NOT know the Lord!) It's a grim atmosphere, with little girls as young as 12 waiting their turn. I really think Roe v. Wade has ruined many more millions of lives in the past 30 years than we can ever comprehend.

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Miss Bobbie ]

 

[Phillip]

You are right! It is the love of money (a sin in itself.) A receptionist at an ob/gyn once told me about an abortion clinic right here in Oklahoma near Oklahoma City. It is open only three days a week because that makes enough money. They charged (ten years ago) $350 cash, no checks or credit cards. Makes you wonder how much was reported to the government. He had one nurse and two receptionists as staff to pay and that was it. Since it was legal, if a girl got into trouble (sick or infected) she was told to go to her local emergency room. The doctor had nothing to do with the patient short of giving them a shot of a narcotic that lasted three minutes and sucking out the fetus. Supposedly, he would talk to the girl briefly and ask her if she was "sure" she wanted to do this. Then she was sent back to the waiting room which would be full of girls waiting the procedure. This receptionist told me that he probably performed up to 10 an hour with the only limit was the girls waiting to get enough strength to leave and open another bed. He would give them a bottle of pain killers and he never saw them again. You can see why a non-Christian who does not believe in the sanctity of human life would go for a job like this. This receptionist also told me that the girls signed a piece of paper keeping him from being liable for anything that went wrong including death and they were asked the length of their pregnancy on the paper and he would make a guess depending on size of the belly. She said there would be girls in there obviously 6 or 7 months pregnant and OK state law only allows 3 month (1st trimester). Texas allows 2nd trimester or six months abortions. Or at least they used to. These are kids within 2 to 3 months of being born. Talk about murder!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Amen Phillip. Makes you cry, don't it ?

 

[JAMES2]

Phillip:
I'm assuming your hypothetical about being in a room with a abortion doctor, a gun and a bible and no secular law to prevent you from being "free" and handling the situation was a joke. I mean, you weren't implying that their was some kind of moral choice involved were you? Of course you don't murder someone.

I don't know about you, but I don't need a "law_ to tell me that murdering someone is evil. I guess, just like if there was not a law about stealing doesn't mean I would go out and steal. Even further, even if there were no laws whatsoever, I would still behave the way I do now. I sure don't need the government to tell me what is right and wrong.

This lunatic that was just arrested by the FBI for all the hoaxes about anthrax is a good example of a nut. He is "Pro-Life" , he was driving a stolen car and he thinks he is on some kind of moral crusade. What a joke.

The end does not justify the means, right? I will never understand the twisted thinking that some of these murderers go through to justify killing other people. I think we all agree that the modern day practice of child-sacrifice (abortion) is a gross, unbelievable, disgusting, idiotic, self-center, immoral act. I think this nation is under severe judgment for making child-sacrifice legal in this country.
James2

[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]