Acts 13:48 and Election

[Silverhair]

Just so. It appears that he doesn't know the difference.

How many colors of calvinism are there? You all seem to make up whatever you want and call it calvinism. Do you really know what you are?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So you do not hold to the TULIP? If not why do you say you hold to mainstream Calvinism

More baseless accusations. You are making a fool of yourself, man.

 

[Silverhair]

More baseless accusations. You are making a fool of yourself, man.

What was the accusation Martin?

I asked a question are you not capable of understanding that?

You are just making a fool of yourself by your non answers.

Or are you concerned that once you make a clear statement you won't be able to dance around as much?

There are as many variations of calvinism as there are people that claim to be calvinist.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What was the accusation Martin?

I asked a question are you not capable of understanding that?

I have explained my beliefs to you at length, including on this thread, especially on Page 3. Here is an extract from Post#23:

You are confusing election and salvation. We were elected in eternity (Eph. 1:4; 2 Thes. 2:13), but we were not saved until we were justified, which happened when we trusted in Christ for salvation. Our salvation was certain, but had not yet happened. BTW, our warrant for salvation is not that we think we're elect. No one can know that until he has trusted in Christ. Our warrant for salvation is that we are sinners, and Christ died for such. So we trust in Him and in His blood shed for sinners on the cross. And then we understand (or should!) that God has loved us from everlasting (Jer. 31:3), and sent Christ to redeem us (John 6:39).

If you want me to expand on that and ask me in a reasonably polite way, I will, of course, do so. But this is mainstream Calvinism, and would have been instantly recognizable as such to Calvin, Bunyan, Spurgeon, Pink, Lloyd-Jones et al. To accuse me of not agreeing with the five principles of Calvinism, when that has nothing whatsoever to do with Acts 13:48, is just insulting.

You are just making a fool of yourself by your non answers.

You have been answered. If you have the reading and comprehension skills of a six year-old, that is not my fault. Again, if you would like something that I have written clarified for you, just ask (nicely, please!).

Or are you concerned that once you make a clear statement you won't be able to dance around as much?

There are as many variations of Calvinism as there are people that claim to be Calvinist.

There are as many variations on non-Calvinism as there are non-Calvinists. I assure you that John and Charles Wesley would not have recognized you as an Arminian, but would have written you off as a Pelagian.

 

[JesusFan]

There is the problem @David Lamb he said he holds to mainline calvinism which has one saved then given faith and then he says you have to have faith before you are saved.

My question for him and you is what do you actually believe? Do either of you hold to the TULIP? If you do not hold to the TULIP why do you call yourselves calvinists?



The bible does not support your elect before the foundation of the world. One is only elect when they are in the Elect one, Christ Jesus, in other words saved. Were you in Christ prior to creation?

Did you have every spiritual blessing before you trusted in Christ?

But I have to ask if God chose a select group to be saved then He also chose all those not to be saved by not choosing them. But then we see in
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
This passage makes it abundantly clear that God wills the salvation of every person. We see this shown in these passages also. John 3:17; John 12:32; 1John 2:2

So is God confused or is He being disingenuous or more likely you and Martin have misunderstood Eph 1:4.

More like you keep confusing Hyper Calvinist and "normal" Calvinist theology

 

[Brightfame52]

Ordained to Eternal Life to believe !

Those who believe the Truth of God, the Gospel when sent to them in the providence of God, its because they were or had been ordained to Eternal Life. Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).AMP

48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.CEV

The word chosen is appropriate in that its meaning is one selected or appointed or chosen for an office. All whom Christ died for had been chosen for an spiritual priesthood. Christ by His Blood converts those He died for into a royal priesthood. Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 7:5

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Being chosen to this royal priesthood we were ordained to Eternal Life and to believe.

Each chosen member of this priesthood, being such they are beforehand prepared by the Holy Spirit, which is also called by Paul 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Those who were prearranged to Eternal Life in the Eternal Counsels of God, are in time set apart by a work of the Holy Spirit, to believe the Truth of the Gospel !

 

[Dave G]

More baseless accusations. You are making a fool of yourself, man.

You are just making a fool of yourself by your non answers.

Gentlemen, let all who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity...
By not insulting one another.

Let us be reminded of how the Lord has been good to us, shall we?

 

[Piper 2]

So you continue to ignore Greek scholars that point out the correct understanding of Act 13:48 so you can hold to your errant view.

Exegesis by Greek scholars does not seem to matter when it comes to supporting your calvinist views.

But you even ignore the obvious understanding found from the context.

As many as were ordained to eternal life (hosoi ēsan tetagmenoi eis zōēn aiōnion). Periphrastic past perfect passive indicative of tassō, a military term to place in orderly arrangement. The word “ordain” is not the best translation here. “Appointed,” as Hackett shows, is better. The Jews here had voluntarily rejected the word of God. On the other side were those Gentiles who gladly accepted what the Jews had rejected, not all the Gentiles. Why these Gentiles here ranged themselves on God’s side as opposed to the Jews Luke does not tell us. This verse does not solve the vexed problem of divine sovereignty and human free agency. There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an absolutum decretum of personal salvation. Paul had shown that God’s plan extended to and included Gentiles. Certainly the Spirit of God does move upon the human heart to which some respond, as here, while others push him away. Word Pictures in the New Testament (A. T. Robertson)

As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.—Better, as many as were disposed for. The words seem to the English reader to support the Calvinistic dogma of divine decrees as determining the belief or unbelief of men, and it is not improbable, looking to the general drift of the theology of the English Church in the early part of the seventeenth century, that the word “ordained” was chosen as expressing that dogma. It runs, with hardly any variation, through all the chief English versions, the Rhemish giving the stronger form “pre-ordinate.” The Greek word, however, does not imply more than that they fell in with the divine order which the Jews rejected. Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Pride, as well as jealousy of the Gentiles who were crowding into the fold, stirred the Jews to antagonism, but they could not eradicate the seed which had been so profusely scattered. Large numbers believed, and as they experienced salvation in Christ, they discovered that they were in line with an eternal purpose. This is the meaning of ordained in Act_13:48. Through the Bible Day by Day (F. B. Meyer)

Ordained to eternal life—Should be rendered, disposed to eternal life. It plainly refers to the eager predisposition just above mentioned in the heart of many of these Gentiles on learning that old prophecy proclaims a Messiah for them. As many as were so inclined to the eternal life now offered committed themselves by faith to the blessed Jesus.
Rarely has a text been so violently wrenched from its connections with the context, and strained beyond its meaning for a purpose, than has been this clause in support of the doctrine of predestination. There is not the least plausibility in the notion that Luke in this simple history is referring to any eternal decree predestinating these men to eternal life. The word here rendered ordained usually signifies placed, positioned, disposed. It may refer to the material or to the mental position. It is a verb in the passive form, a form which frequently possesses a reciprocal active meaning; that is, it frequently signifies an action performed by one’s self upon one’s self. Thus, in Romans 9:22, The vessels of wrath fitted to destruction are carefully affirmed, even by predestinarians, to be fitted by themselves. Indeed, the very Greek word here rendered ordained is frequently used, compounded with a preposition, in the New Testament itself, in the passive form with a reciprocal meaning. Thus, Rom_13:1, Be subject unto the higher powers, is literally, place yourselves under the higher powers. So, also, Rom_8:7; 1Co_16:16; Jas_4:7, and many other texts. The meaning we give is required by the antithesis between the Jews in Act_13:46 and these Gentiles. The former were indisposed to eternal life, and so believed not; these were predisposed to eternal life, and so believed. Daniel Whedon''s Commentary

You know, it's okay to differ with people. And even try to convince people of your position. But calling it false doctrine or an errant view or bad exegesis will never convince anyone. It just irritates people with your arrogance.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

So you continue to ignore Greek scholars that point out the correct understanding of Act 13:48 so you can hold to your errant view.

You do realize that there are greek scholars that take a calvinistic view of Acts 13:48 dont you ?

 

[Silverhair]

You know, it's okay to differ with people. And even try to convince people of your position. But calling it false doctrine or an errant view or bad exegesis will never convince anyone. It just irritates people with your arrogance.

What you call arrogance is just standing for the word of God. Which would be better, not point out a false/errant views or just let the view stand un-challenged?

It seems that by your view the apostles would have been arrogant.

People can and have misused the bible by pulling verses out of context, this has led to false teachings and causes much distress in the body of Christ.

Would you not speak out against what you see as false teaching?

The bible is the standard of truth. When someone strays from that truth it is the responsibility of Christians to point that out.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



You do realize that there are greek scholars that take a calvinistic view of Acts 13:48 dont you ?

Yes. I have read some of them.

But it still comes down to what the bible says in context. When a person ignores context they run into errors in understanding.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Yes. I have read some of them.

Okay then, your comment was unnecessary

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Okay then, your comment was unnecessary

Which comment BF? That your by ignoring context you have misunderstood Act 13:48.

It does not take a Greek scholar to understand those verses BF.

When you pull verses out of their context it will usually lead to an errant view of the text.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Which comment BF?

The one you made, maybe you need to pay attention to your own comments and peoples responses to them duh

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



The one you made, maybe you need to pay attention to your own comments and peoples responses to them duh

I have made a number of comments BF. Since most of my comments upset you it could anyone of them.

But as is usual with you you just made non answers so unless you can be clear with which comment you want me to respond to, I will just ignore what you have said.

 

[Brightfame52]

I have made a number of comments BF. Since most of my comments upset you it could anyone of them.

But as is usual with you you just made non answers so unless you can be clear with which comment you want me to respond to, I will just ignore what you have said.

Try looking at comments between you and i duh

 

[Silverhair]

Try looking at comments between you and i duh

I have made a number of comments BF. Since most of my comments upset you it could anyone of them.
But as is usual with you you just made non answers so unless you can be clear with which comment you want me to respond to, I will just ignore what you have said.

 

[Brightfame52]

I have made a number of comments BF. Since most of my comments upset you it could anyone of them.
But as is usual with you you just made non answers so unless you can be clear with which comment you want me to respond to, I will just ignore what you have said.

Well you need to pay attention

 

[Christforums]

because God first appointed them to eternal life.

I agree. Ordained by G-d means the events, circumstances or things were foreseen and permitted. Predestined means elected to salvation. However, I agree your inference is correct, G-d elected or predestined some and He ordained the events, circumstances, or things which brought about justification" ect.

A lot of people have a difficult time w/ the notion that G-d foreordained the events surrounding the crucifixion also, that is, the angry mop, the unrighteous trial and ruling, the scourging, the crown of thorns, the hammer and nails, and the cross. These circumstances and events were brought into effect, like hardening the heart of Pharoah so the glory of G-d be known to all Israel.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Christforums

. Ordained by G-d means the events, circumstances or things were foreseen and permitted.

I disagree, they were foreseen by God because He ordained/determined them, so Yeah He permits what He originally determines in the first place