Yes. I remember. I told you the correct word and explained its case, number, and gender and meaning of the word make your "interpretation" false and fanciful.
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Acts 13:48
- Thread starter SheepWhisperer
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I once had a KJV only person tell me that the Greek text was okay, but the KJV was better. SMH. [emoji15]By apparently thinking the English corrects the Greek, a la Ruckman.
Sheepwhisper, I see the usual suspects are once again presenting a bogus interpretation of Acts 13:48. One of the characteristics of false theology is to take an ambiguous verse and claim it means this or that.
The first falsehood I saw was that you used the lexiconal word (tasso - G5021) rather than the specific form of the word found in the Greek (tetagmenon). So immediately rather than discussing the word group and its forms, you were attacked as ignorant because you do not read Greek. When you see this behavior, just recognize it as indicating they do not want to actually discuss the word and its intended meaning in Acts 13:48. So step one is to recognize if you look at the Blue Letter Bible site and see "tasso" you are looking at a form of the word that represents all the different forms in that group, thus you referred to the lexiconal word. But if you look at the on-line interlinear for the verse, you will find the specific word and its parsing.
So here it is in the form of a verb participle: tense - perfect; voice- passive; case- nominative; number- plural; gender-male. In our verse, the "verbal adjective" is used to describe something about those who believe. The tense indicates the action has been completed, thus in the English translation you see past tense (ordained in the KJV). The passive voice indicates believers were being acted upon, rather than the ones acting. The nominative case indicates the word is being used as a verbal adjective. Being in the plural form, it indicates the description is applicable to the whole group of believers.
I know nothing of Greek, all of the above is just my effort to understand tetagmenon as it appears in Acts 13:48 Do not go off into a discussion of Greek grammar, stay focused on what the intended meaning is in Acts 13:48. I am sure some of what I said misses the mark. But that is not the point.
A more common translation of the word is "appointed" and if you have made an appointment with you doctor, you know it is my mutual agreement. They will give you one or more times of availability and you will say yes. Thus you have been "appointed" by mutual agreement.
Now in our verse "ordained" suggests those that believed were being acted upon or influenced by God. But if we translated the same word as "directed" we have Paul presenting the gospel and those taking that direction believed.
God bless
The first falsehood I saw was that you used the lexiconal word (tasso - G5021) rather than the specific form of the word found in the Greek (tetagmenon). So immediately rather than discussing the word group and its forms, you were attacked as ignorant because you do not read Greek. When you see this behavior, just recognize it as indicating they do not want to actually discuss the word and its intended meaning in Acts 13:48. So step one is to recognize if you look at the Blue Letter Bible site and see "tasso" you are looking at a form of the word that represents all the different forms in that group, thus you referred to the lexiconal word. But if you look at the on-line interlinear for the verse, you will find the specific word and its parsing.
So here it is in the form of a verb participle: tense - perfect; voice- passive; case- nominative; number- plural; gender-male. In our verse, the "verbal adjective" is used to describe something about those who believe. The tense indicates the action has been completed, thus in the English translation you see past tense (ordained in the KJV). The passive voice indicates believers were being acted upon, rather than the ones acting. The nominative case indicates the word is being used as a verbal adjective. Being in the plural form, it indicates the description is applicable to the whole group of believers.
I know nothing of Greek, all of the above is just my effort to understand tetagmenon as it appears in Acts 13:48 Do not go off into a discussion of Greek grammar, stay focused on what the intended meaning is in Acts 13:48. I am sure some of what I said misses the mark. But that is not the point.
A more common translation of the word is "appointed" and if you have made an appointment with you doctor, you know it is my mutual agreement. They will give you one or more times of availability and you will say yes. Thus you have been "appointed" by mutual agreement.
Now in our verse "ordained" suggests those that believed were being acted upon or influenced by God. But if we translated the same word as "directed" we have Paul presenting the gospel and those taking that direction believed.
God bless
He is trying to undermine and pervert the word of God and suggest his foolish carnal thought in place of revealed truth.
Interesting you cannot see this yourself
It is bad enough that you ignore the correction of TC.....but now seeing you once again spew out more ignorance and trying to foist your "greek" falsehoods upon us makes us all cringe and recall Archangel shredding your errors over and over....someone should have thrown the white flag of surrender in for you...but it went on and on
...looks like you are seeking to be humiliated once again..."Van,
[Sheepwhisper, I see the usual suspects are once again presenting a bogus interpretation of Acts 13:48. ]
[I know nothing of Greek, ]
AMEN......we noticed
[ I am sure some of what I said misses the mark. But that is not the point. ]
Oh yes...missed by a mile....not even close
[A more common translation of the word is "appointed" and if you have made an appointment with you doctor, you know it is my mutual agreement. They will give you one or more times of availability and you will say yes. Thus you have been "appointed" by mutual agreement.]
....no one is going for this, not even by the time the next eclipse happens.
[Sheepwhisper, I see the usual suspects are once again presenting a bogus interpretation of Acts 13:48. ]
[I know nothing of Greek, ]
AMEN......we noticed
[ I am sure some of what I said misses the mark. But that is not the point. ]
Oh yes...missed by a mile....not even close
[A more common translation of the word is "appointed" and if you have made an appointment with you doctor, you know it is my mutual agreement. They will give you one or more times of availability and you will say yes. Thus you have been "appointed" by mutual agreement.]
....no one is going for this, not even by the time the next eclipse happens.
SW, you failed to respond to this post. It is #11...
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,[Titus 3:5]
It is because He saved us, not the things we added to it. Not our innate faith, or our repentance. We, in our fallen condition, could not exercise faith and/or repentance. Both of these are gifts of God. To say you don't need God to gift you faith and repentance is the epitome of an haughty spirit. You're saying you don't need His help, as you can do that yourself.
Now, you say God gives everyone w/o exception an opportunity to be saved. What about those who died w/o ever hearing the gospel. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. If ppl don't hear the gospel, they can't have faith. Then seeing we're justified by faith, no faith = no salvation.
You're a theological hot mess.
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,[Titus 3:5]
It is because He saved us, not the things we added to it. Not our innate faith, or our repentance. We, in our fallen condition, could not exercise faith and/or repentance. Both of these are gifts of God. To say you don't need God to gift you faith and repentance is the epitome of an haughty spirit. You're saying you don't need His help, as you can do that yourself.
Now, you say God gives everyone w/o exception an opportunity to be saved. What about those who died w/o ever hearing the gospel. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. If ppl don't hear the gospel, they can't have faith. Then seeing we're justified by faith, no faith = no salvation.
You're a theological hot mess.
It is bad enough that you ignore the correction of TC.....but now seeing you once again spew out more ignorance and trying to foist your "greek" falsehoods upon us makes us all cringe and recall Archangel shredding your errors over and over....someone should have thrown the white flag of surrender in for you...but it went on and on
That was like Apollo Creed in Rocky IV when he went againt Ivan Drago. Drago had beaten him to a pulp, and when his corner man held the white towel up to throw it in, Creed said "no", and then Drago killed him.
That's what the likes of TCassidy, ArchAngel, and GreekTim have done to Van. Ppl carry him out on a gurney all the time, but he keeps coming back to get knocked out, and then carried out on a gurney again. Its a sad thing to behold.
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And once again Van completely misses the point. The purpose of pointing out the root fallacy is to indicate the words is a passive voice, which disallows Sheepwhisper's fanciful "interpretation."
That "whooshing" sound was the point going right over Van's head (again).
My neighbor has a Yorky that weighs about 4 pounds. When the big dogs are out in the yard playing the Yorky stays on the porch because he is smart enough to know he can't run with the big dogs.
Kinda the same thing with Van. LOL!
That "whooshing" sound was the point going right over Van's head (again).
My neighbor has a Yorky that weighs about 4 pounds. When the big dogs are out in the yard playing the Yorky stays on the porch because he is smart enough to know he can't run with the big dogs.
Kinda the same thing with Van. LOL!
Did you see all the posts attacking me, and completely devoid on on topic content. This is all they have. Change the subject to an opponents character and qualifications, misrepresent his views, and so forth.
Returning to topic, the meaning of Acts 13:48. First, I have established the word used means to be appointed by mutual consent, and specifically in this verse to be directed by Paul's presentation of the gospel to eternal life.
If you look at Thayer's Greek Lexicon (found at Blue Letter Bible) you will see the meaning at Acts 13:48 is to" appoint mutually i.e. to agree upon."
Next lets consider how the word group (tasso - G5021) is used in scripture. It appears 7 times in the NASB.
1) Matthew 28:16 with the NASB translating it as "designated." Here the idea is the disciples went to the location designated by Jesus. Thus they took the direction.
2) Acts 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed.
3) Acts 15:2 with the NASB translating it as "determined." Here the idea is a group agreed upon sending Paul. Obviously Paul mutually agreed to go, he took the direction.
4) Acts 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.
5) Acts 28:23 with the NASB translating it as "set." Here a group had "set" a day for Paul and thus once again they mutually agreed to that day.
6) Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God establishes governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.
7) 1 Corinthians 16:16 with the NASB translating it as "devoted." Here the idea is that the a group has set themselves to the task of ministry, yet another mutually agreed upon action.
As you can see, tasso means to agree mutually, as in to believe in accordance with the gospel's direction to eternal life.
Returning to topic, the meaning of Acts 13:48. First, I have established the word used means to be appointed by mutual consent, and specifically in this verse to be directed by Paul's presentation of the gospel to eternal life.
If you look at Thayer's Greek Lexicon (found at Blue Letter Bible) you will see the meaning at Acts 13:48 is to" appoint mutually i.e. to agree upon."
Next lets consider how the word group (tasso - G5021) is used in scripture. It appears 7 times in the NASB.
1) Matthew 28:16 with the NASB translating it as "designated." Here the idea is the disciples went to the location designated by Jesus. Thus they took the direction.
2) Acts 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed.
3) Acts 15:2 with the NASB translating it as "determined." Here the idea is a group agreed upon sending Paul. Obviously Paul mutually agreed to go, he took the direction.
4) Acts 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.
5) Acts 28:23 with the NASB translating it as "set." Here a group had "set" a day for Paul and thus once again they mutually agreed to that day.
6) Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God establishes governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.
7) 1 Corinthians 16:16 with the NASB translating it as "devoted." Here the idea is that the a group has set themselves to the task of ministry, yet another mutually agreed upon action.
As you can see, tasso means to agree mutually, as in to believe in accordance with the gospel's direction to eternal life.
Stop playing the victim. Nobody has attacked you. We have pointed out your massive ignorance on the subject you pretend to understand, but by your own statements prove you are abysmally ignorant on the subject.
Matthew 28:16. εταξατο an aorist, middle voice, indicative.
Acts 13:48. τεταγμενοι a perfect passive participle
Acts 15:2. εταξαν an aorist active indicative
Acts 22:10. τετακται a perfect passive indicative
Acts 28:23. ταξαμενοι an aorist middle participle
Romans 13:1. τεταγμεναι a perfect passive participle
1 Corinthians 16:16. No form of the Greek word in question occurs in this verse: ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς ὑποτάσσησθε τοῖς τοιούτοις καὶ παντὶ τῷ συνεργοῦντι καὶ κοπιῶντι.
So I will assume your typing skills are on a par with your Greek skills and address verse 15. εταξαν. An aorist active indicative.
Now let me point out what should be patently obvious to anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.
Active voice verb indicates something a person is doing.
Middle voice verb indicates something that a person does to himself.
Passive voice verb indicates something that was done to a person.
I hit my brother. "Hit" is active voice. Something I did.
I hit myself. "Hit" is a middle voice verb. Something I did to myself.
I was hit. "Hit" is passive voice. I was hit by somebody else.
This is 4th grade English. I really shouldn't have to dumb it down this much.
Again, take my father's advice. "When you don't know what you are talking about, stop talking."
Matthew 28:16. εταξατο an aorist, middle voice, indicative.
Acts 13:48. τεταγμενοι a perfect passive participle
Acts 15:2. εταξαν an aorist active indicative
Acts 22:10. τετακται a perfect passive indicative
Acts 28:23. ταξαμενοι an aorist middle participle
Romans 13:1. τεταγμεναι a perfect passive participle
1 Corinthians 16:16. No form of the Greek word in question occurs in this verse: ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς ὑποτάσσησθε τοῖς τοιούτοις καὶ παντὶ τῷ συνεργοῦντι καὶ κοπιῶντι.
So I will assume your typing skills are on a par with your Greek skills and address verse 15. εταξαν. An aorist active indicative.
Now let me point out what should be patently obvious to anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.
Active voice verb indicates something a person is doing.
Middle voice verb indicates something that a person does to himself.
Passive voice verb indicates something that was done to a person.
I hit my brother. "Hit" is active voice. Something I did.
I hit myself. "Hit" is a middle voice verb. Something I did to myself.
I was hit. "Hit" is passive voice. I was hit by somebody else.
This is 4th grade English. I really shouldn't have to dumb it down this much.
Again, take my father's advice. "When you don't know what you are talking about, stop talking."
As you can see, all these folks have is misrepresentation and ad hominem.
Did I say the word in Acts 13:48 was passive? Of course. Something was done to them? Of course.
Did you see the implication I did not know those things? Yes, so misrepresentation.
Do you see the effort to change the subject away from how the word is used in scripture to refer to agreeing with direction?
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of ]the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Once again it has been shown that an ambiguous translation has been used to misrepresent the message of God.
Did I say the word in Acts 13:48 was passive? Of course. Something was done to them? Of course.
Did you see the implication I did not know those things? Yes, so misrepresentation.
Do you see the effort to change the subject away from how the word is used in scripture to refer to agreeing with direction?
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of ]the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Once again it has been shown that an ambiguous translation has been used to misrepresent the message of God.
Yeah, except "agreed" is active voice!
So, once again, you prove you know nothing at all about the subject but continue to whine that nobody takes you seriously.
The reason nobody takes you seriously is that you know nothing at all about most of the subject under discussion.
And when it is shown that you are ignorant you whine and whine and whine.
What are you, about 10 or 11?
TC claim is utter nonsense. You have TC on one side and Thayer's on the other.
Note the rant folks, and the disparagement.
To restate the obvious, when we receive direction we are passive and therefore the passive voice is used for our mutual agreement with the direction received.
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Note the rant folks, and the disparagement.
To restate the obvious, when we receive direction we are passive and therefore the passive voice is used for our mutual agreement with the direction received.
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
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You still have absolutely no understanding of the issue.
Which has nothing to do with the issue. In verse 48 the word is τεταγμενοι which is passive voice. It means to be appointed. It cannot mean to appoint one's self. That would require a middle voice verb.
Do me a favor. Go study Greek for about 20 years then get back to me.
Did I say we appoint ourselves? Nope - so more misrepresentation. This is all they have, change the subject using disparagement and misrepresentation. The grammar of Acts 13:48 allows the understanding of taking direction as a passive. You can take that to the bank.
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Do anyone really think TC does not grasp my view and is just pretending to be obtuse? For the last time,
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Is "agreed" isolated as a stand alone? Nope. As many as [agreed, received, took] the gospel's direction. Did they give the direction? Nope. Did Paul's gospel act upon them? Yes.
Again the word means to mutually consent, i.e. to agree up.
Acts 13:48 could be understood as follows: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord; and as many as had agreed with the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.
Is "agreed" isolated as a stand alone? Nope. As many as [agreed, received, took] the gospel's direction. Did they give the direction? Nope. Did Paul's gospel act upon them? Yes.
Again the word means to mutually consent, i.e. to agree up.
All they can post is taint so, and Van is deeply flawed for saying so. If "as many as" gave directions, it would be active, but if they received, took or agreed with the directions, then it is passive. They were acted up. So simple really.
The Greek grammar ploy has once again failed to support misrepresentation of God's message.
As many as [agreed, received, took] the gospel's direction. Did they give the direction? Nope. Did the direction in Paul's gospel act upon them? Yes.
The Greek grammar ploy has once again failed to support misrepresentation of God's message.
As many as [agreed, received, took] the gospel's direction. Did they give the direction? Nope. Did the direction in Paul's gospel act upon them? Yes.
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