Acts 13:48

[Iconoclast]

Now [Edited: Name calling] charges SW with guilt tripping after [Edited: Name calling] posted post #84. See a pattern? Whatever malfeasance they are engaged in, they charge that malfeasance to others.

Doctrines supported by logical fallacies such as the TULI should be shunned.

Returning to the topic of Acts 13:48. The best translation of the Greek word has been shown to be directed Therefore the last part of Acts 13:48 should be understood as "As many as were directed to eternal life believed. Paul's gospel presentation provided direction to eternal life, and as many as were influenced by that direction believed.

Since there is no actual support in scripture for the bogus doctrines TULI of the TULIP, ambiguous translations are used to pour mistaken doctrine into the text. Case in point, the KJV mistranslation of Acts 13:48.. Tasso is never used to mean predestination, it is always used to convey being directed to something.

Tasso=twaddle in vanspeak

 

[SheepWhisperer]

This says.....without a cause

The part about the "fool" doesn't.

 

[Van]

Once again, here are the places where "tasso" in various grammatical forms, is used in scripture:

1) Matthew 28:16 with the NASB translating it as "designated." Here the idea is the disciples went to the location designated by Jesus. Thus they took the direction.

2) Acts of the Apostles 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed.

3) Acts of the Apostles 15:2 with the NASB translating it as "determined." Here the idea is a group agreed upon sending Paul. Obviously Paul mutually agreed to go, he took the direction.

4) Acts of the Apostles 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.

5) Acts of the Apostles 28:23 with the NASB translating it as "set." Here a group had "set" a day for Paul and thus once again they mutually agreed to accept the direction to meet on that day.

6) Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God directed that governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.

7) 1 Corinthians 16:15 with the NASB translating it as "devoted." Here the idea is that the a group has set themselves to the task of ministry, yet another mutually agreed upon direction.

As you can see, tasso means to agree mutually, as in to believe in accordance with the gospel's direction to eternal life.

But as many as were directed to eternal life believed

No amount of change the subject charges and implications can hide the obvious.

 

[TCassidy]

And, once again, Van posts the wrong word in every single instance! LOL! ROFLO!

Matthew 28:16. εταξατο (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) an aorist, middle voice, indicative.
Acts 13:48. τεταγμενοι (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) a perfect passive participle
Acts 15:2. εταξαν (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) an aorist active indicative
Acts 22:10. τετακται (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) a perfect passive indicative
Acts 28:23. ταξαμενοι (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) an aorist middle participle
Romans 13:1. τεταγμεναι (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) a perfect passive participle
1 Corinthians 16:15. εταξαν (not τασσο as Van falsely claims). An aorist active indicative.

This would be funny if it weren't so terribly sad.

 

[Van]

And once again TC makes false charges.

Did I parse any of the verses other than Acts 13:48? Nope so a deliberate falsehood. Do the lexicon's agree with me, the word as used in Acts 13:48 means to mutually consent, i.e. to agree upon.. Yep Was my parsing (from an on line interlinear. Yep

So here it is in the form of a verb participle: tense - perfect; voice- passive; case- nominative; number- plural; gender-male. In our verse, the "verbal adjective" is used to describe something about those who believe. The tense indicates the action has been completed, thus in the English translation you see past tense (ordained in the KJV). The passive voice indicates believers were being acted upon, rather than the ones acting. The nominative case indicates the word is being used as a verbal adjective. Being in the plural form, it indicates the description is applicable to the whole group of believers.

Compare with

Acts 13:48. τεταγμενοι (not τασσο as Van falsely claims) a perfect passive participle

So all they have to offer is misrepresentation and disparagement.

 

[Iconoclast]

And once again TC makes false charges.

Did I parse any of the verses other than Acts 13:48? Nope so a deliberate falsehood. Do the lexicon's agree with me, the word as used in Acts 13:48 means to mutually consent, i.e. to agree upon.. Yep Was my parsing (from an on line interlinear. Yep

You cannot answer TC....he went over everyone of your errant statements...showed them to be grossly defective, and you persist as offering ...in your own words....twaddle.
Many of us recall you being crushed by Archangel over and over...now TC....in every post

 

[Van]

Claiming truth was shown to be defective in the unreferenced past, rather than addressing Acts 13:48 is all they have folks, change the subject, misrepresent truth, and disparage opponents.

Tasso is always used in scripture to describe being directed to something. In the case of Acts 13:48, as many as were directed to eternal life believed. Paul's gospel presentation provided direction to eternal life, and as many as were influenced by that direction believed.

 

[Rippon]

In the case of Acts 13:48, as many as were directed to eternal life believed. Paul's gospel presentation provided direction to eternal life, and as many as were influenced by that direction believed.

I'd say you are under the influence alright.

 

[agedman]

Claiming truth was shown to be defective in the unreferenced past, rather than addressing Acts 13:48 is all they have folks, change the subject, misrepresent truth, and disparage opponents.

Tasso is always used in scripture to describe being directed to something. In the case of Acts 13:48, as many as were directed to eternal life believed. Paul's gospel presentation provided direction to eternal life, and as many as were influenced by that direction believed.

This is perplexing.

TC takes each of the verses Van used to support his Act13:48 view and shows, from the original language, the support Van desires is non-existent.

Yet, rather then coming to recognize what TC has done, there is the persistence in presenting what has been shown as faulty as if being factual. That isn't logical, is it?

Van, doesn't it make better rational to understand what the original indicates in each supporting verse you used for your view of Acts 13:48, rather than assuming a standard basses upon frailty?

As you recall, TC and I have also butted heads on relatively unimportant issues, but in this most important point, he really is correct. That conclusion should not be biased upon how anyone should cling to any particular theological thinking, but upon the work done in the original languages shown in the posts.

Look carefully at his post of the translation work on every verse you desire to draw support.

The original language doesn't support your posts.

No matter the theological view, the results must conclude upon that presented as closely to the original of the author, and that was done by TC.

 

[Van]

Hi Agedman,

Each and every verse where tasso (in its various forms) is used in scripture has been shown to refer to someone or group being directed to something. No one showed that statement is incorrect. TC was shown to be wrong, misrepresenting my view in post # 105. Yet you seem either to be unable to grasp the truth or are willing to disregard it.

Did I assume a standard base (or one form of the word)? Nope so you Agedman also are engaging in disinformation. Doctrine supported by fallacy should be shunned, not enabled.

Next you say the original language does not support my posts. Yet another falsehood.

I say again, tasso (no matter the form) is never used to mean "predestined" and is always used to mean someone being directed to something. In Acts 13:48, some of the Gentiles were directed to eternal life by Paul's gospel presentation.

 

[agedman]

Hi Agedman,

Each and every verse where tasso (in its various forms) is used in scripture has been shown to refer to someone or group being directed to something. No one showed that statement is incorrect. TC was shown to be wrong, misrepresenting my view in post # 105. Yet you seem either to be unable to grasp the truth or are willing to disregard it.

Did I assume a standard base (or one form of the word)? Nope so you Agedman also are engaging in disinformation. Doctrine supported by fallacy should be shunned, not enabled.

Next you say the original language does not support my posts. Yet another falsehood.

I say again, tasso (no matter the form) is never used to mean "predestined" and is always used to mean someone being directed to something. In Acts 13:48, some of the Gentiles were directed to eternal life by Paul's gospel presentation.

It so very unfortunate that you do not take what TC posted as veracity.

Why is it that you desire to disagree with the translation work?

Do you think the translation work inaccurate?

Do you consider some source more foundational?

Perhaps there is a psychological distress, or some history that obliges obstinance, what do you think?

If TC is wrong, and has used your own presentation of Scriptures, is it not obligatory of you to take the same verses and systematically show TC's error?

 

[agedman]

Hi Agedman,

Each and every verse where tasso (in its various forms) is used in scripture has been shown to refer to someone or group being directed to something. No one showed that statement is incorrect. TC was shown to be wrong, misrepresenting my view in post # 105. Yet you seem either to be unable to grasp the truth or are willing to disregard it.

Did I assume a standard base (or one form of the word)? Nope so you Agedman also are engaging in disinformation. Doctrine supported by fallacy should be shunned, not enabled.

Next you say the original language does not support my posts. Yet another falsehood.

I say again, tasso (no matter the form) is never used to mean "predestined" and is always used to mean someone being directed to something. In Acts 13:48, some of the Gentiles were directed to eternal life by Paul's gospel presentation.

That just isn't consistent with:

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon




Strong's Number: 5021 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
tasso a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Tasso 8:27,1156
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
tas'-so Verb
Definition

1. to put in order, to station
   1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
      1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
   2. to appoint, ordain, order
      1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
      2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon
   
   NAS Word Usage - Total: 7
   appointed 2, designated 1, determined 1, devoted 1, established 1, set 1
   
   Taken from here

Now I suppose you will focus on "appoint mutually." But as TC showed, that is not the use in Acts.

Not once is "mutually agreed" a definition that could accurately by applied in acts for the word.

 

[TCassidy]

Now I suppose you will focus on "appoint mutually." But as TC showed, that is not the use in Acts.

Not once is "mutually agreed" a definition that could accurately by applied in acts for the word.

As there is no way to make a verb middle voice in English we have to ad an adverb, in this case "mutually." That makes it a middle voice verb.

But we all know the verb in Acts is passive voice.

But Van really doesn't care. He will change the world of God to agree with his folly rather than abandon his folly in favor of the word of God.

 

[Van]

Hi Agedman,

The Greek word (in its various forms) appears 7 times in the NASB. I said this the first time in post #30. Now in your post # 112, it says the same thing.

"As many as were directed to eternal life believed" is the intended meaning of Acts 13:48. Paul's gospel presentation provided the direction to eternal life and some of the Gentiles that were influenced by that direction believed.

This view is both grammatically correct and contextually correct.

If you actually think "directed" cannot be used to translate a Greek verb in the passive voice (as in the verbal adjective of Acts 13:48, you have another think coming.

When someone is directed, it could translated as assigned, or appointed, or designated, the meaning (to direct someone to something, a task, location, ministry etc.) is the same.

 

[Rippon]

If you actually think "directed" cannot be used to translate a Greek verb in the passive voice (as in the verbal adjective of Acts 13:48, you have another think [sic] coming.

You ARE under the influence.

it could translated appointed

Or ordained.

 

[Van]

To repeat, the KJV translated tasso (in one of its grammatical forms) as ordained. That is a mistranslation, tasso is never used to mean predestined. It is always used to mean someone is directed to something.

1) Matthew 28:16 with the NASB translating it as "designated." Here the idea is the disciples went to the location designated by Jesus. Thus they took the direction.

2) Acts of the Apostles 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed.

3) Acts of the Apostles 15:2 with the NASB translating it as "determined." Here the idea is a group agreed upon sending Paul. Obviously Paul mutually agreed to go, he took the direction.

4) Acts of the Apostles 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.

5) Acts of the Apostles 28:23 with the NASB translating it as "set." Here a group had "set" a day for Paul and thus once again they mutually agreed to accept the direction to meet on that day.

6) Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God directed that governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.

7) 1 Corinthians 16:15 with the NASB translating it as "devoted." Here the idea is that the a group has set themselves to the task of ministry, yet another mutually agreed upon direction.

As you can see, tasso means to agree mutually, as in to believe in accordance with the gospel's direction to eternal life.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

The context of this part of the chapter is that the Gospel was preached to the Jews and they rejected it. So it was then presented to the Gentiles who accepted it gladly. Verse 48 says they "were ordained", a state of being which mentions no "ordainer". You have to assume who the ordainer was or leave it as it is. I believe it means they were simply "disposed" to a desire for an afterlife and when the ones who were heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they believed "gladly". But you will believe it the way you want.

I think God's word is wonderful, it's a lamp unto my feet, a light unto my path, it's "very pure", it's quick and powerful. Why do I "rebel" at your doctrine of God supposedly appointing ppl to believe"? Because according to the word of God, that's not what God does. God is not willing that any should perish, He's willing that all should come to repentance, He sent His Son for the propitiation of the sins of the whole world, He "so loved the world" that He gave His only begotten Son, on and on I could go, God provided the means and the opportunity for every single person on this planet to be saved if they only believe on His Son. But you deny that. You see my belief as ''rebellion'', I don't.

SH, You are mistaken and you are misusing the Word of God. You mention 2 Peter 3:9 but it's clear that you have not done any exegesis regarding it.

The Bible does teach reformed theology.

John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Romans 9:15-16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Romans 9:22-24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Ephesians 1:4-5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[agedman]

Van,

God is not some film producer/director suggesting to the cast slight changes to their presentations.

Rather, the Acts, and other uses you gave, is that of a producer's selection of actors and appointment to the performance task. The one selected is not in the position to do the selecting, nor capable in determining the parameters of that selection. The one selected has no bargaining powers in that which is assigned, should they get chosen for the performance.

Once one is appointed to the part by the casting director, then the script is learned, the acting practiced, and the performance presented. Performers have a certain say in how they present just as believers have such, too.

But the ones not chosen, those not in the cast, have no say, though they often do make derogatory suggestions. But they are not invited to be a part of the cast, nor given the rewards as part of the production.

Perhaps you are attempting to have the actors select the script and the performers select what they will perform.

Performers are assigned to a part or they do not perform in that production.

An actor doesn't jump on the stage interrupting an ongoing performance unless they are of the likes of J. W. Booth - violent and ungodly, and whose end was useless and worthless.

Perhaps this use of the fine arts will give you a bit of insight.

 

[MB]

You seem confused. God did not inspire the English translation. God inspired the Hebrew and Greek which I have already explained to you.

You seem to be saying that all Bible versions are mistranslated. If so then why not write your own version?

.
If you are foolish enough to think the English was inspired by God we have no intelligent basis to continue this discussion.

Then why did you even reply? Act 13:48 does not say they were appointed by God and there is no way you can make it so. You assume that God appointed them. That is as plain as the nose on your face.
MB

 

[kyredneck]

Context.
Context.
Context.

ROFGuffawing!!!