Acts 13:48

[Skandelon]

"Those who were appointed to eternal life believed."

Just as clear as, "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

Yet, some people have the nerve to suggest that one must be given life (regenerated) in order to believe, when clearly it is by believing that we may have life.

It's not as clear cut as you attempt to make it brother.

 

[Skandelon]

Perhaps I should just say the biblical position.

No, but you could say the Calvinistic/Reformed interpretation of the biblical position...

Animals are not like humans at all. They were not created in the beginning in the image of God.

My point exactly. You're view of freedom (being according to what one desires) reducing human freedom to animal instinct.

Humans are and are accountable for the intentions of their heart in all of their actions.

Why? Their intentions are apparently just as determined as those of animals with who make instinctive choices in your view. Has God not just as equally decreed the nature of man as he did the nature of a Lion?

When a lion chooses a steak over a salad isn't it according to his nature/desire? So that Lion's choice was FREE, by that standard. What makes mankind's choices any different in your view? On what basis do you rest human freedom and accountability? Is it just because God chooses to hold us accountable for what he made us to desire and thus choose, whereas he lets the animals off?

 

[freeatlast]

"Those who were appointed to eternal life believed."

It is crystal clear that the context declares the people were appointed by a sovereign God to eternal life and because of that htey believed.

Faith is a great gift of God that lets you see reality for what it really is. Faith is a gift of assurance in your salvation in Christ.

God gives faith to those who he elected to salvation at teh appointed time they are to receive the gift.

Thank you for the correction. The content of the text does support what you have said. :thumbsup:

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Just as clear as, "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

Yet, some people have the nerve to suggest that one must be given life (regenerated) in order to believe, when clearly it is by believing that we may have life.

It's not as clear cut as you attempt to make it brother.

It is quite clear. By believing we have life in his name. We are saved by grace through faith. We receive our faith by grace and out of that faith comes repentence.

We receive the atonement by faith. That faith isn't possible without regeneration however. Therefore justificatin by faith isn't possible without grace.

No one can boast.

.

Why? Their intentions are apparently just as determined as those of animals with who make instinctive choices in your view. Has God not just as equally decreed the nature of man as he did the nature of a Lion?

Yes but they are not men. We are superior beings to them. God loves us more. He did not die for the lions. He died for his people.

When a lion chooses a steak over a salad isn't it according to his nature/desire? So that Lion's choice was FREE, by that standard. What makes mankind's choices any different in your view? On what basis do you rest human freedom and accountability? Is it just because God chooses to hold us accountable for what he made us to desire and thus choose, whereas he lets the animals off?

We are superior to the lions in virtualy every way. We were made just a little lower than the angels for a time.

Your question is like asking why is a candy bar better to eat than dung.

 

[Skandelon]

It is quite clear. By believing we have life in his name.

But you believe and teach that one must have life (regeneration) in order to believe, which makes this statement meaningless it context of your entire dogma.

Yes but they are not men. We are superior beings to them. God loves us more. He did not die for the lions. He died for his people

Which is the only distinction you can offer...notice none of that relates to the nature of the choice itself, only the decision of God to make us "superior" and "loved" more. If your system is true I'd much rather be an animal than one of the non-elect. At least he doesn't hold the animal accountable for his instinctive choices, whereas he holds men accountable for those same kind of instinctive choices...ones according to desire.

We are superior to the lions in virtualy every way. We were made just a little lower than the angels for a time.

I agree, yet your system is the one apparently making our abilities no greater than that of animals who merely act according to predetermined stimuli of environment in conjunction with the predetermined nature of the creature. You claim we are superior in every way yet the practicality of your view reduces us to no more than animals with regard to how we make free choices.

Your question is like asking why is a candy bar better to eat than dung.

That would be a worthy comparison if you concede that God made the eater to inevitably prefer the taste of dung over that of a candy bar.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

But you believe and teach that one must have life (regeneration) in order to believe, which makes this statement meaningless it context of your entire dogma.

Not at all. One has to be alive to believe. If one is unregenerate they are dead spiritually.

Which is the only distinction you can offer...notice none of that relates to the nature of the choice itself, only the decision of God to make us "superior" and "loved" more. If your system is true I'd much rather be an animal than one of the non-elect. At least he doesn't hold the animal accountable for his instinctive choices, whereas he holds men accountable for those same kind of instinctive choices...ones according to desire.

I can assure you you would rather not exist at all than be one of the non elect. They will spend eternity in torment hating God and each other.

I agree, yet your system is the one apparently making our abilities no greater than that of animals who merely act according to predetermined stimuli of environment in conjunction with the predetermined nature of the creature. You claim we are superior in every way yet the practicality of your view reduces us to no more than animals with regard to how we make free choices.

We have the ability to reason and have complex emotions animals do not. That is silly and clearly a straw man.

That would be a worthy comparison if you concede that God made the eater to inevitably prefer the taste of dung over that of a candy bar.

If he did so then the eater would eat dung wouldn't he.

 

[DHK]

If he did so then the eater would eat dung wouldn't he.

Oddly enough it is the man that eats the "dung" or those things that are produced from it, and then sell it at the highest possible price in the market. Man is strange isn't he?

Kopi luwak (Malay pronunciation: [ˈkopi ˈlu.aʔ]), or civet coffee, is one of the world's most expensive and low-production coffee. It is made from the beans of coffee berries which have been eaten by the Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus) and other related civets, then passed through its digestive tract.[1] A civet eats the berries for their fleshy pulp. In its stomach, proteolytic enzymes seep into the beans, making shorter peptides and more free amino acids. Passing through a civet's intestines the beans are then defecated, keeping their shape. After gathering, thorough washing, sun drying, light roasting and brewing, these beans yield an aromatic coffee with much less bitterness, widely noted as the most expensive coffee in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

This is the most expensive coffee in the world folks, and it comes from the dung of an animal.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Oddly enough it is the man that eats the "dung" or those things that are produced from it, and then sell it at the highest possible price in the market. Man is strange isn't he?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

This is the most expensive coffee in the world folks, and it comes from the dung of an animal.

:laugh:

Wow....

 

[psalms109:31]

Ordained

Most peopple don't realize it is the work of God that we believe. It is those who trust in the Lord that their paths are made straight. It is us who come to Jesus meek and humble and listen and learn from Him. It is Him that teaches us what to believe. We don't want to teach people to do these things, because we want them to believe what we believe, but it is Christ who teaches us.

Our path starts with trust and not leaning on our own understanding and trusting in the Lord. How can I believe unless I first trust in Jesus and listen and learn from Him what to believe.

After Jesus is lifted up He will draw all men to Himself and it is those who listen and learn will come.

His word brings two paths to believe in Him, trust in Him and be saved or not and continue to condemnation.

It is His word that is Spirit and life, His word that our faith comes from, if you turn away from Him and His word you turn away from life eternal.

Through scripture I only see those who trust in Jesus ordained to believe ordained for eternal life.

It is not amazing to me that those ordained for eternal life believed.

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD.

John 5
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 4
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

 

[Skandelon]

Not at all. One has to be alive to believe.

Which is the exact opposite of what the verse says, "by believing you may have life."

See, you all do the exact thing you accuse us of doing in Acts 13:48. The difference is that this order is repeated throughout scripture where as the narrative in Acts is the only one that appears to go the other direction.

I can assure you you would rather not exist at all than be one of the non elect. They will spend eternity in torment hating God and each other.

If only they could have been a lion, uh? Better than being created in God's Image I guess, because then they wouldn't be held accountable for their predetermined choices.

We have the ability to reason and have complex emotions animals do not. That is silly and clearly a straw man.

I agree, we are able to reason and have complex emotions, but in your view those things are meaningless because the same person determining their nature is the same one determining those reasonings and emotions. Who is doing the reasoning? Whose emotions are they in a system where God determines whatsoever comes to pass? Like when a Lion is instinctively (by nature) drawn to fear, or to attack, so too humans are likewise programmed by their maker to not be able to do otherwise than what they end up doing. You're system reduces mankind to animals....actually worse, because at least animals are held to account for the choices they were determined to make.

If he did so then the eater would eat dung wouldn't he.

Yes, just like the non-elect man of the Calvinistic system would be rejecting this so called genuine appeal to be reconciled....because that is what his creator made him to desire.

 

[Robert Snow]

The Jews have rejected Christ.

If Calvinism is true, which I believe it isn't, how can anyone reject God. I thought you believed that God did all the choosing? If man is dead in the sense that you Calvinists believe, which I also believe is wrong, how could he reject anything. I've been to a number of funerals, and the corpse didn't object or reject anything.

 

[Robert Snow]

We see from the passage in question:

Acts 13:48 ESV
48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

That "as many" of the group in question in the context meaning no more no less than the total, those who were appointed to eternal life, believed.

God appointed all those who would believe the Gospel to eternal life. That's why he said:

Matthew 11:28-30 (NKJV)

28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

 

[Robert Snow]

Sovereign means absolute ruler. Whatever God doesn't control must control Him.

And where do you find this false doctrine in the bible? Where does the bible definition of sovereignty mean what you have said here?

Maybe you should think about this and then you may realize how absurd it is. God, being sovereign can give his creation the ability to make choices irrespective of Him and still be sovereign. I know this throws a wrench into the broken machine of Calvinism but it is true nonetheless.

BTW, I don't control my neighbor, does that mean that he controls me?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Which is the exact opposite of what the verse says, "by believing you may have life."

YOu have life by receiving the atonemtn by faith. YOu are able to have faith by being regenerated.

Yes, just like the non-elect man of the Calvinistic system would be rejecting this so called genuine appeal to be reconciled....because that is what his creator made him to desire.

The creator made man holy. Man's unholiness is the consequence of sin. The creator benevolently has rescued some men from their sin.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

If Calvinism is true, which I believe it isn't, how can anyone reject God. I thought you believed that God did all the choosing? If man is dead in the sense that you Calvinists believe, which I also believe is wrong, how could he reject anything. I've been to a number of funerals, and the corpse didn't object or reject anything.

Man in his fallen state rejects God naturally. To accept God he has to be regenerated by God. His eyes havbe to be opened.

The Jews as a group have rejected Christ and claim he is a liar and a blasphemer.

HOwever it is fortold that one day they will acept him.

God appointed all those who would believe the Gospel to eternal life.

The passage says those who were appointed believed.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

And where do you find this false doctrine in the bible? Where does the bible definition of sovereignty mean what you have said here?

Maybe you should think about this and then you may realize how absurd it is. God, being sovereign can give his creation the ability to make choices irrespective of Him and still be sovereign. I know this throws a wrench into the broken machine of Calvinism but it is true nonetheless.

BTW, I don't control my neighbor, does that mean that he controls me?

You can't place yourself on par with GOd. GOd is the supreme being who knows all things and is all powerful.

He is not informed by anything. There is nothing for him to learn.

He is not allowed to do anything. He does what he wants to do.

In other words God is on top of the ladder in such a way that he has forordained everything to come to pass according to his pleasure and will.

 

[Skandelon]

YOu have life by receiving the atonemtn by faith.

Another way of saying life comes by faith, good. Thanks for affirming that.

YOu are able to have faith by being regenerated.

Another way of saying faith comes through being made alive, which again is the exact opposite of what you just said and what the verse says, "by believing you may have life."

The creator made man holy.

Then explain why he sinned when tempted?

Man's unholiness is the consequence of sin.

And what cause him to sin in the first place if not God?

The creator benevolently has rescued some men from their sin.

Actually he reconciled the world and sends us as his ambassadors to appeal to all creatures, be reconciled to God.

 

[DHK]

In other words God is on top of the ladder in such a way that he has forordained everything to come to pass according to his pleasure and will.

1. Does God foreordain rape, abortion, and murder?
2. Did God foreordain that Job suffer, or did He, in his sovereign providence, simply allow Satan to afflict him?

 

[Robert Snow]

Man in his fallen state rejects God naturally. To accept God he has to be regenerated by God. His eyes havbe to be opened.

The Jews as a group have rejected Christ and claim he is a liar and a blasphemer.

HOwever it is fortold that one day they will acept him.



The passage says those who were appointed believed.

How can I believe anything from a person who believes God ordains rape and murder. This is a flat out blasphemous thing to believe about our God. I fear you know very little about God if you believe this lie!

 

[Robert Snow]

You can't place yourself on par with GOd. GOd is the supreme being who knows all things and is all powerful.

He is not informed by anything. There is nothing for him to learn.

He is not allowed to do anything. He does what he wants to do.

In other words God is on top of the ladder in such a way that he has forordained everything to come to pass according to his pleasure and will.

You evidently don't understand the Gospel at all. I suggest you scrap all this Hyper-Calvinistic junk you have been taught and repent and believe the bible!

It's time to stop beating around the bush and say the truth concerning Hyper-Calvinism Hyper-Calvinism is a false doctrine from the pit of hell. Anyone who believes it is in grave error concerning God. I'm not talking about Calvinism, I'm talking about Hyper-Calvinism.