After Sandy Hook we said never again and then we let 1,686 mass shootings happen

[Reynolds]

Neither does Trump. That's why our major allies are starting to write off America. They don't want him to step foot inside their country (example the U.K. and Germany).

He is making them look like wimps. France and England did help bomb Syria.

 

[FollowTheWay]

This post only proves how wickedly depraved America is and how much we need the Gospel to go forth. People are killing people. That's what it boils down to. Violence is celebrated in America. Guns are a smoke screen...people are wicked, not inanimate objects.

I agree that America is not the same country it was when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's. I think back with great respect and thanks to God for my Christian parents and grandparents. But I don't really think we're any worse than for instance the U.K., Germany or Canada. In fact statistics show we are still attending church much more often than they are. I think as you do that the real burden rests with Christians. Most are speaking out in favor or more hate and violence to defeat the wave of hate and violence we see in America today. They identify more with the Republican Party than with the teachings of Jesus.

What then is the difference between America and other developed countries? It's obvious. We have far more guns and far more violence than they do. Could this kid in Texas have killed 10 people with a knife before being arrested? The police should be armed and we should depend on them to take down these mass murderers.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Shows that more gun control laws will do zilch, as we need to focus on getting the Gospel out, helping mentally ill people, and allowing schools and churches to arm themselves!

How does that article support your argument or any other one from a non-NRA site?

 

[FollowTheWay]

Once again I'm here to fact check your posts.

Note you said "gun homicide rate". That is murder of another person by a person using a gun. That is not the same thing as gun violence rate. Nor is it the same as deaths by guns, which could include suicide.

So--you said gun homicide rate is 25X higher in the U.S. than in any other developed country. These are the conditions you set down.

Once again you are wrong.

US gun homicide rate is 5.4X higher than Canada.
US gun homicide rate is 6.75X higher than Italy.
US gun homicide rate is 13.5X higher than Switzerland.

Notice this is not 25X higher...

View attachment 2179

There might be a difference in the time period looked at or some other reason for the discrepancy. I'll accepte your numbers. What is your conclusion using your numbers. Isn't it obvious? We have a gun problem in America.




Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[FollowTheWay]

After Sandy Hook we said never again and then we let 1,686 mass shootings happen

Yep. We sure do need to shave that number, don't we?



LOL that ain't my claim; it's the title of this thread, and thus FollowTheWay's claim.

It's not a claim. It's a fact.

 

[InTheLight]

There might be a difference in the time period looked at or some other reason for the discrepancy. I'll accepte your numbers. What is your conclusion using your numbers. Isn't it obvious? We have a gun problem in America.

Here's another source for data.

World firearms murders and ownership
(click on data, click on sort range, click on sort by and select homicide by firearm rate, select Z to A)

United States has 2.97 homicide deaths by firearm for 100,000 people.

Some countries that fail to reach your claim that the US has 25X more gun homicide deaths:
Switzerland has 0.77 per 100,000 people.
Italy 0.71
Belgium 0.68
Taiwan 0.56
Canada 0.51
Sweden 0.41
Netherlands 0.33
Australia 0.14

 

[Reynolds]

It's not a claim. It's a fact.

Really? When did "We say never again!"?

 

[Reynolds]

The left have been after guns for decades. Been trying to demonize the gun supporter for decades.

 

[Alcott]

It's not a claim. It's a fact.

If you don't have a sword, sell our garment and buy one.

 

[Revmitchell]

https://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8283199/gun-control-comedy-jefferies

Australian comedian perfectly sums up why other countries think US gun laws are crazy

Every shooting is its own private tragedy for the victims and their families. But events like this are also part of a much bigger problem. The United States has far more gun violence than the rest of the developed world. To Americans, that can seem like a regrettable but unavoidable fact of life. But to much of the rest of the world, the US attitude toward gun control seems absolutely crazy.

This articel assumes that gin control laws are the answer but gives no evidence. Further, the author cannot really be trying to speak for "the rest of the world". This opinion piece is full of opinions based on what the author wants to be true personally but has nothing verifiable to back ti up.

 

[Revmitchell]

https://is.gd/Q7JgUV


In December 2012, a gunman walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and killed 20 children, six adults, and himself. Since then, there have been at least 1,686 mass shootings, with at least 1,941 people killed and 7,104 wounded.

The counts come from the Gun Violence Archive, a database that tracks events since 2013 in which four or more people (not counting the shooter) were shot at the same general time and location. The database’s researchers comb through hundreds of news stories, police reports, and other sources each day and individually verify the reports. Still, since some shootings aren't reported, the database is likely missing some shootings, and some are missing details. The count is also a constant work in progress, so some of the numbers and details may be slightly imprecise.

Is this article concerned with the death of people in general or just by guns. Guns do not have a coercive character to them so the people who use them have decided to kill people before the gun fit their hand. Outlawing guns will not reduce gun violence. plain and simple.

 

[atpollard]

from: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/c...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

(EDIT: well, I guess it didn't like the image ... you will have to go to the link to see it for yourself.)

 

[FollowTheWay]

Here's another source for data.

World firearms murders and ownership
(click on data, click on sort range, click on sort by and select homicide by firearm rate, select Z to A)

United States has 2.97 homicide deaths by firearm for 100,000 people.

Some countries that fail to reach your claim that the US has 25X more gun homicide deaths:
Switzerland has 0.77 per 100,000 people.
Italy 0.71
Belgium 0.68
Taiwan 0.56
Canada 0.51
Sweden 0.41
Netherlands 0.33
Australia 0.14

Your new "data isn't consistent with your previous "data." In the case of Switzerland it's WAY OFF.

US gun homicide rate is 5.4X higher than Canada.
2.97/0.51 = 5.83, Close but not the same.
US gun homicide rate is 6.75X higher than Italy.
2.97/0.71 = 4.18, Previously you guessed 6.75
US gun homicide rate is 13.5X higher than Switzerland.
2.97/0.77 = 3.86, Previously you guessed 13.5

 

[FollowTheWay]

The left have been after guns for decades. Been trying to demonize the gun supporter for decades.

Siding with Archie Bunker doesn't exactly make a strong argument. Do you actually believe that "we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again?" He brought on the stock market crash of '29 and the Great Depression.

 

[FollowTheWay]

This articel assumes that gin control laws are the answer but gives no evidence. Further, the author cannot really be trying to speak for "the rest of the world". This opinion piece is full of opinions based on what the author wants to be true personally but has nothing verifiable to back ti up.

It compares gun violence in America with the situation in other comparable countries.

 

[InTheLight]

Your new "data isn't consistent with your previous "data." In the case of Switzerland it's WAY OFF.

US gun homicide rate is 5.4X higher than Canada.
2.97/0.51 = 5.83, Close but not the same.
US gun homicide rate is 6.75X higher than Italy.
2.97/0.71 = 4.18, Previously you guessed 6.75
US gun homicide rate is 13.5X higher than Switzerland.
2.97/0.77 = 3.86, Previously you guessed 13.5

I'm not guessing, I'm taking information from two sets of data covering two different time periods, of course there will be slight variations.

In any event, it blows away your assertion that the gun homicide rate is 25X higher in the US than any other developed nation.

 

[Reynolds]

Siding with Archie Bunker doesn't exactly make a strong argument. Do you actually believe that "we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again?" He brought on the stock market crash of '29 and the Great Depression.

You miss the point.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I'm not guessing I'm taking information from two sets of data covering two different time periods, of course there will be slight variations.

In any event, it blows away your assertion that the gun homicide rate is 25X higher than any other developed nation.

That's exactly the reason I gave for the discrepancy between my numbers and yours.

 

[FollowTheWay]

You miss the point.

What's the point. If you pick someone noted for their misuse of facts and grammar as your example that's a very weak argument.

 

[atpollard]

What's the point. If you pick someone noted for their misuse of facts and grammar as your example that's a very weak argument.

POINT: “The left have been ... trying to demonize the gun supporter for decades.” [With the clip of Archie Bunker as an example of a gun supporter being portrayed in a negative light even decades ago. As you noted, Archie is a notoriously bad character to hold up as a positive example.]