37818
Well-Known Member
Maybe. Maybe not. The Holy Spirit name's a name missing in our current Hebrew text, Luke 3:35-36, ". . . which was the son of Sala, Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, . . ."
The Genesis Genealogies
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Age of the Earth...
- Thread starter Centrist
- Start date
The Genesis Genealogies
Son of Sala?
Genesis 11:v.14-16 - Complete Jewish Bible - 14 - Shelach lived thirty years and fathered ‘Ever.
16 ‘Ever lived thirty-four years and fathered Peleg. 17 After Peleg was born, ‘Ever lived another 430 years and had
sons and daughters.
Note: Ever died at the age of 464. Are you a spiritist? are you a follower of spiritism?
Son of Sala?
Genesis 11:v.14-16 - Complete Jewish Bible -
14 - Shelach lived thirty years and fathered ‘Ever.
16 ‘Ever lived thirty-four years and fathered Peleg. 17 After Peleg was born, ‘Ever lived another 430 years and had sons and daughters.
Note: Ever died at the age of 464. Are you a spiritist? are you a follower of spiritism?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I would like someone who subscribes to an old earth to answer the following question:
Was Adam created as a man or as a baby?
Was Adam created as a man or as a baby?
37818
Well-Known Member
No. You should know better if read what I have posted.
I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand? Genesis is a GOD's plan of restitution of all things-Acts 3:v. 17 to 26.
I had posted : Genesis is a GOD's Plan that was revealed to Moses around 2.500 years after Adam.
In other words, Genesis was revealed to Moses 1.500 years BC.
What did your reply have to do with what I wrote?
Nothing, nothing for me, but just a message from someone spiritist. Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective.
What does God's Word say about the creation of man?
37818
Well-Known Member
Acts of the Apostles 3:17-26, ". . .
And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. . . . For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. . . . Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. . . ."
Neither of those passages I quoted or ... omitted says anything from Genesis of the the restoration of all things.
Acts 3:v.17 to 26
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive(Acts 7:v.55-56-Check it) until the times of restitution of all things, (these times arrived)which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Get ready
37818
Well-Known Member
Not in or from the book Genesis.
I agree with you.
and God saith, 'Let light be;' and light is. And God seeth the light that good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one. Gen 1:3-5
Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours in the day (that good)? if any one may walk in the day (that good), he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see; and if any one may walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.' John 11:9,10
and the city hath no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they may shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp of it is the Lamb; and the nations of the saved in its light shall walk, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it, and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there; Rev 21:23-25
Why will night not be there? What happened to darkness? Was it cast into outer darkness? Where is Satan the Devil?
Why did God separate the light, that good from the darkness?
Do you agree with me that the darkness of V's 2 - 5 represents the devil and the light of V's 3-5 God?
And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers, and they did not prevail, nor was their place found any more in the heaven; and the great dragon was cast forth -- the old serpent, who is called 'Devil,' and 'the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world -- he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him.
When?
The great dragon, the old serpent who is called 'Devil,' and 'the Adversary, the one who has the power of, the death (see Heb 2:14) is on the earth, now what does God have in store for him?
Did that take place?
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Genesis 1:v.1to31 - What did GOD reveal to Moses?
The verse 1 needs to be corrected by the translators. The Holy Spirit revealed/reveals by the Word of GOD there are four heavens(plural), not only one heaven(singular).
Explaining: There are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens. Hallelujah.- Philippians 3:v.20-21 combined with Ephesians 1:v.3-4 - 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
GOD - the Word is GOD - had already worked two and half days or 2.500 years after Adam (1.500 B.C.), when He revealed Genesis to Moses, and Moses wrote the book of Genesis.
GOD said to Moses: "In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth"-Genesis 1:1.-How to interpret what God revealed to Moses in Genesis 1:1?
In the beginning.... (continues below)
The Word -GOD the Father- meant or is revealing to Moses that in JESUS were created the heavens and the earth(small letter. (But here GOD calleth these things which still be not as though they were).
So GOD the Father revealed to Moses that in JESUS (JESUS is GOD-the Word made flesh, the beginning, here He was still in the bosom of the Father) He created heavens, and in separate and especially He created the earth(small letter, the dry land, the clay - here's a great mystery-(not a rabbit hole), in fact a profound enigma to be deciphered, (I like to decipher biblical enigmas, but by the Bible mainly, course). It is the glory of GOD to conceal a thing:... (Prov.25:v.2)
... GOD created the HEAVENS ... (continues below)
Isaiah 40:v.21-22
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? - 22 It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the HEAVENS as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a TENT to dwell in:
Well, there are 4 heavens, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens, but UNTIL THE CURRENT TIME were created only the first two heavens, the 1st and the 2nd heavens, the 3rd HEAVEN is the next to be established, better, to be planted, and both FIRST and SECOND will be DISSOLVED henceforward-(2Peter 3:v.7 and 11-13).
The third heaven, where Paul Apostle was and knew it, it will be established or planted in this seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, as said JESUS ; Luke 20:v.35-36. Check it. After this millennium, I mean the current millennium, will be a new War against Satan, and then will be established the heaven of the heavens for ever and ever, and the Eternity will begin. Rev.20:v. 7-15
The FIRST and SECOND HEAVENS, and the earth-the dry land-Israel- which are now -2Pe.3:v.7and11-13.
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now (see, they remained since two thousand years ago), by the same Word-Word of GOD-are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment (the seventh and last Day-the Lord's Day) and perdition of ungodly men.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens being on FIRE shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat;
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for NEW HEAVENS and a new earth wherein dwellth
righteousness.
... and the earth.
earth is the dry land, the clay.
Verse 2- And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.(here GOD calleth this thing which still be not as though it was).
Questions:
1) Was GOD speaking of the geometric form of the earth-the dry land-He had created and placed it in the Universe?
If it was, it has not any sense to say the "earth was placed in the Universe without form". Once the earth was already created, but was without form, then Scripture is not saying on geometric sense, course, and also is not saying of the creation of the Planet Earth, the matter here is another.
So Scripture is revealing another thing in this first moment of this analysed point. There's a mystery, surely, "not a rabbit hole", in fact a profound enigma to be deciphered, (I like to decipher biblical enigmas, but by the Bible, course).
2) Why the created earth, the dry land, was without a geometric form?
Well, it is evident that GOD was not speaking of the Planet Earth placed in the Universe billions years ago. By the way, even the own GOD has several questions for all of us - Job 38:v.4 to 7:
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner STONE thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS of God shouted for joy?
3) So what was GOD really revealing to Moses in Genesis 1:v.1 about the earth, as is revealed in the verses of Job as above?
Well, there was a multitude of GOD's sons in the garden of Eden.By the way, there was even a ruller in Eden.
They lived there for billions of years. Where was the Garden of God? In the Planet Earth of course. After the rebellion in Eden by the ruller and his followers, GOD-the Word is GOD-planned to restore ALL THINGS as is written in Genesis.
4) What was the spiritual environment of the Planet Earth(like today, for example), after the rebellion in Eden?
Well, there was only and only darkness in whole Earth, the earth was really without form and avoid, this picture means the Planet Earth was in total chaos spiritually (GOD is Spirit), then GOD said: Let there be light. How many YEARS had passade when GOD said: Let there be light? It was in the period of evening of the FIRST Day of GOD's work.
We are not speaking of magic, GOD is not a magic according humam thoughts, in fact GOD makes to happen.
There was light from that moment ahead, after many years the light was shining, as we can see by the biblical Chronology -Genesis 5:1to32- even Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him, as GOD revealed to Moses after around 2.500 years or 1.500 B.C.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. In the year 1.056 after Adam was born Noah-Genesis 5:v.29- and all the earth was corrupted, except Noah. God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The earth was completly without form and void.
OT scholars explain the repetitive phrases of Gen. 1:1-2:4 in terms of its poetic liturgical use in Temple worship as part of the justification for Sabbath rest: And God said....And it was so...Evening came, morning followed the first (2nd, 3rd, etc.) day."
there are 2 biblical reasons for rejecting the Young Earth theory:
(1) 24-hour days are a function of the earth's rotation in relation to the sun. Yet the sun is not even created until the 4th day. This in itself refutes the claim that "day" indicates 24-hour periods.
(2) The 7th day of creation is not concluded by the phrase used in the first 6 days, "Evening came, morning followed, the 7th day." Why not? Because there is no boundary between the 7th day and later days. In other words, we are still living in the 7th day of creation!
Let me illustrate the tragic aspect of this debate. Canadian Chuck Templeton was a close friend of Billy Graham and was co-founder of Youth for Christ. In the late 1940s this great soul winner was widely considered to have more potential as a great evangelist than Billy. When I was at Princeton, my Canadian friends and I listened to an old tape of his sermon and were deeply moved by his passionate and eloquent preaching of the Gospel. But his seminary studies convinced him that evolution falsified a literal reading of the Genesis creation stories. His Nazarene upbringing enslaved him to the Domino theory of biblical inspiration, the view that none of biblical revelation can be trusted if some of it is in error. So Canada's most effective evangelist of all time renounced his faith and became an atheist. If he wasn't ensnared by the Domino theory, he might have embraced one of the alternative ways of understanding Gen. 1-3 and gone on to save thousands more souls! We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross, not by a particular resolution of the Genesis vs. evolution debate!
there are 2 biblical reasons for rejecting the Young Earth theory:
(1) 24-hour days are a function of the earth's rotation in relation to the sun. Yet the sun is not even created until the 4th day. This in itself refutes the claim that "day" indicates 24-hour periods.
(2) The 7th day of creation is not concluded by the phrase used in the first 6 days, "Evening came, morning followed, the 7th day." Why not? Because there is no boundary between the 7th day and later days. In other words, we are still living in the 7th day of creation!
Let me illustrate the tragic aspect of this debate. Canadian Chuck Templeton was a close friend of Billy Graham and was co-founder of Youth for Christ. In the late 1940s this great soul winner was widely considered to have more potential as a great evangelist than Billy. When I was at Princeton, my Canadian friends and I listened to an old tape of his sermon and were deeply moved by his passionate and eloquent preaching of the Gospel. But his seminary studies convinced him that evolution falsified a literal reading of the Genesis creation stories. His Nazarene upbringing enslaved him to the Domino theory of biblical inspiration, the view that none of biblical revelation can be trusted if some of it is in error. So Canada's most effective evangelist of all time renounced his faith and became an atheist. If he wasn't ensnared by the Domino theory, he might have embraced one of the alternative ways of understanding Gen. 1-3 and gone on to save thousands more souls! We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross, not by a particular resolution of the Genesis vs. evolution debate!
How tragic was / is the example you have illustrated in your post above. In fact very sad, very sad, this sad happening is of / for crying. In fact, the letter kills. But there are a lot of similar examples like that ,unfortunately. Taking advantage of the above example, it is opportune to remember what our Master taught us, saying: Matthew 13:v.3 to 9 and 18 to 23 and 7:v.24 to 29
3 ... Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Matthew 7:v.24 to 29
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
37818
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:9, ". . . if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. . . ." 1 John 5:9-10, ". . . If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . ." 2 Corinthians 13:5, ". . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, . . ." John 17:3, ". . . And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, . . ." 1 John 5:12, ". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ."
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Yes, that sounds rather tragic, and also way too naïve and unbalanced. Interpretation is subject to review. Some so-called doctrine does not deserve the label, much less that of dogma.
But growing up, some of the scenarios coming from non-creationists who were otherwise well-educated, reasonable people bordered on the bizarre, or beyond. Knowing the Scriptures kept me grounded and properly skeptical.
The letter of the Word of GOD kills, and it works or acts in the way Satan likes, but the Spirit gives life. The Word is GOD. GOD is Spirit - John 4:v.24.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater.
What made you skeptical, incredulous, was not by the fact you have known the Scriptures, as you said, quite the contrary, what made you skeptical flowed from another source that interprets Scriptures, as you can see in Matthews 4:v.6-7, but not the own Scripture. The Word is God.
There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father- GOD the Father- , the Word - the Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit - who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person, and these three are One. 1 John 5:v.7
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
No, not "quite the contrary." I do not argue that my own personal understanding led me, but that the Holy Spirit was able to lead me using Scripture, because I was well-exposed to Scripture, knew what they stated. Without that necessary exposure, I would have been much more vulnerable to men's ideas.
37818
Well-Known Member
You were blessed. Except those 8 passages from the New Testament used to lead me to accept Christ as my Savior, I knew of only what would be regarded as man's ideas [in the summer of 1962].