-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
T
tulpje
Guest
hahahaha look at the bottom of the post! Silly! I says that I took ir from my devotional... i didn't write that! hahahaha
T
tulpje
Guest
Is that you have to say about it? I thought that it was great!
T
tulpje
Guest
"As I do not know exactly what position it is that you think I am defending, how about we start again so I can catch up?
You ask me what reason there is to believe in God.
My reply is: to avoid Hell or to get into Heaven. Thus, I do have a reason to believe in God.
If you start again from there then maybe I'll get it this time.
Or maybe I'm just slow."
I'm sorry, I am just coming into the middle of this conversation that I have not been following closely. Would you mind please clearifying something for me? You profile says that you are an athiest. Are you saying that there is a reason to believe yet you chose not to? If so, what reason would that be?
You are absolutely correct, either you beleive and you are saved, or you die in your sins.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Pure and simple law and gospel here. Either you are saved through Christ or you die in your sins.
Mary
You ask me what reason there is to believe in God.
My reply is: to avoid Hell or to get into Heaven. Thus, I do have a reason to believe in God.
If you start again from there then maybe I'll get it this time.
Or maybe I'm just slow."
I'm sorry, I am just coming into the middle of this conversation that I have not been following closely. Would you mind please clearifying something for me? You profile says that you are an athiest. Are you saying that there is a reason to believe yet you chose not to? If so, what reason would that be?
You are absolutely correct, either you beleive and you are saved, or you die in your sins.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Pure and simple law and gospel here. Either you are saved through Christ or you die in your sins.
Mary
As this thread is getting a bit of length to it, I will close it tomorrow night around 10:00pm eastern time. I doubt that a resolution will be reached so I would encourage the serious participants to start a new thread. The closing will make this thread more apt to be read by newcomers, that is the only reason for this measure. Thank you.
Clint Kritzer
Moderator
Clint Kritzer
Moderator
T
tulpje
Guest
I gave you proof. The eyewitness testimonies of the apostles. If we were to have a trial today, in a court a law, to judge whether or not Jesus was the Son of God, and 12 apostles stood up and said what they saw, the the verdict would have to be that indeed, Jesus Christ is the son of God.
But the question still remains: What proof do you have that he is NOT the Son of God?
P.S. Evolution is not proof. It is a theory just as creationism is a theory. No one can go into a labatory and reproduce the beginning of the world. But then again, we have the eyewitness testimony of the only person that was there. GOD!
[ March 14, 2002, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: tulpje ]
T
tulpje
Guest
LOL, Thanks for the clarification, I knew I must have been missing something there. I just couldn't tell where it began or left off. You silly boy... I mean girl.
</font>[/QUOTE]Ha Ha Ha! In fact, you would never find a woman writing in a devotional from my church. Women in my church have no spiriual authority over men. It is the simple way that Christ ordained his church.
[ March 14, 2002, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: tulpje ]
C
chekmate
Guest
You didn't give us proof. You gave us second-hand testimony from a unproven, mistranslated, and 2000 year old book. That kind of proof would never stand up in a court today.
The burden of proof is not upon us. It is upon the person making the claim.
According to Dictionary.com, the primary definition of a theory is: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
Creationism is not "widly accepted," nor has it been "repeatedly tested." And once again, you say you have to proof in the word of God, and yet you doin't provide any proof that this actually is the word of God.
David Gould,
Just because God exists, does not mean one goes to either heaven or hell. Therefore, that is not a valid point for believing in God. Does that help?
Hint: What if man misinterpreted the Bible or Koran etc, or what if these Books were simply the writings of men? It still doesn't prove God exists or doesn't.
While I believe that Christianity is the true path for man to find God, that was not the question you raised nor is it the issue.
Your question was what evidence is there that God exists? It doesn't mandate that any information in the Bible is correct or incorrect.
So again, what is the point of believing that God exists?
edited for clarity
[ March 14, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
Just because God exists, does not mean one goes to either heaven or hell. Therefore, that is not a valid point for believing in God. Does that help?
Hint: What if man misinterpreted the Bible or Koran etc, or what if these Books were simply the writings of men? It still doesn't prove God exists or doesn't.
While I believe that Christianity is the true path for man to find God, that was not the question you raised nor is it the issue.
Your question was what evidence is there that God exists? It doesn't mandate that any information in the Bible is correct or incorrect.
So again, what is the point of believing that God exists?
edited for clarity
[ March 14, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
T
tulpje
Guest
You didn't give us proof. You gave us second-hand testimony from a unproven, mistranslated, and 2000 year old book. That kind of proof would never stand up in a court today.
The burden of proof is not upon us. It is upon the person making the claim.
According to Dictionary.com, the primary definition of a theory is: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
Creationism is not "widly accepted," nor has it been "repeatedly tested." And once again, you say you have to proof in the word of God, and yet you doin't provide any proof that this actually is the word of God.
</font>[/QUOTE]The Bible is the first hand testimony of those who where there and saw it with their own two eyesA thoery is a unproven hypothesis-the fact still remains that you cannot prove the theory of evolution by going into the labratory and creating the earth. No-one can prove that this is the way the earth was made. Likewise, creationists cannot prove it either since we are not God, but we do have his testimony. He was the only one who was there
Although manuscrips of the Bible have been copied and handed down through the generations and the original documents no longer exist, God has preserved his word.
R
radiochemist
Guest
>>>>>>>>>>>Although manuscrips of the Bible have been copied and handed down through the generations and the original documents no longer exist, God has preserved his
word. <<<<<<<<<<<
Since the original documents no longer exist, how do you know that the present copies are accurate copies?
word. <<<<<<<<<<<
Since the original documents no longer exist, how do you know that the present copies are accurate copies?
T
tulpje
Guest
Although the original documents themselves have been lost, we believe that the Lord in his providential care has accurately preserved the Hebrew and Greek texts through the many hand-copied manuscripts that exist. Although there are minor differences or "variants" between the various hand-copied manuscripts, these variants do not cause any changes in doctrine.
Mary
T
tulpje
Guest
http://www.wels.net/sab/frm-bel.html
We believe that God has also given a written revelation for all people in the Holy Scriptures. His revelation in the Bible has two main messages, the law and the gospel. The law declares what is right and wrong, and it threatens God's punishment for sin. The gospel presents the love of God, which he has shown especially by providing salvation from sin through Jesus Christ.
We believe that the entire Bible is Christ-centered. In the Old Testament God repeatedly promised a divine deliverer from sin, death, and hell. The New Testament proclaims that this promised deliverer has come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus himself says of the Old Testament, "These are the Scriptures that testify about me" (John 5:39).
We believe that God gave the Scriptures through men whom he chose, using the language they knew and the style of writing they had. He used Moses and the prophets to write the Old Testament in Hebrew (some portions in Aramaic) and the evangelists and apostles to write the New Testament in Greek.
We believe that in a miraculous way that goes beyond all human investigation, God the Holy Spirit moved these men to write his Word. These men "spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). What they said was spoken "not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13). Every thought they expressed and every word they used were given them by the Holy Spirit. Saint Paul wrote to Timothy, "All Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16). The church has called this miraculous process inspiration, which means "breathing into." Since every word of Scripture was inspired, we also call this process verbal inspiration, or word-for-word inspiration. This is not to be equated with mechanical dictation, since the Holy Spirit guided the writers as they used their individual vocabularies and writing styles.
We believe that Scripture is a unified whole, true and without error in everything it says, for the Savior said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). Therefore it is the infallible authority and guide for everything we believe and do.
We believe that the Bible is fully sufficient, clearly teaching people all they need to know to get to heaven. It makes them "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15), and it equips them for "every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17). Since God's plan of salvation has been fully revealed in the canonical books of the Bible, we need and expect no other revelations (Hebrews 1:1,2). The church is built on the teachings of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20).
We believe and accept the Bible on its own terms, accepting as factual history what it presents as history and recognizing as figurative speech what is evident as such. We believe that Scripture must interpret Scripture, clear passages throwing light on those less easily understood. We believe that no authority--whether it is human reason, science, or scholarship--may stand in judgment over Scripture. Sound scholarship will faithfully search out the true meaning of Scripture without presuming to pass judgment on it.
We believe that the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament and the Greek text of the New Testament are the inspired Word of God. Translations of the Hebrew and Greek that accurately reflect the meaning of the original text convey God's truth to people and can properly be called the Word of God.
Although the original documents themselves have been lost, we believe that the Lord in his providential care has accurately preserved the Hebrew and Greek texts through the many hand-copied manuscripts that exist. Although there are minor differences or "variants" between the various hand-copied manuscripts, these variants do not cause any changes in doctrine.
We reject any worship that is not directed to the triune God as revealed in the Bible. We reject the use of feminine names and pronouns for God because in Scripture God reveals himself as Father and Son. We reject the opinion that all religions lead to the same God.
We reject any thought that makes only part of Scripture God's Word or that allows for the possibility of factual error in Scripture, even in so-called nonreligious matters such as historical or geographical details. We likewise reject all views that say Scripture is merely a human record of God's revelation as he encounters mankind in history, and so is a record subject to human imperfections.
We reject any emphasis upon Jesus as the personal Word of God (John 1:1) that minimizes the role of the Scriptures as the written Word of God (Romans 3:2).
This is what Scripture teaches about God and his revelation. This we believe, teach, and confess.
We believe that God has also given a written revelation for all people in the Holy Scriptures. His revelation in the Bible has two main messages, the law and the gospel. The law declares what is right and wrong, and it threatens God's punishment for sin. The gospel presents the love of God, which he has shown especially by providing salvation from sin through Jesus Christ.
We believe that the entire Bible is Christ-centered. In the Old Testament God repeatedly promised a divine deliverer from sin, death, and hell. The New Testament proclaims that this promised deliverer has come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus himself says of the Old Testament, "These are the Scriptures that testify about me" (John 5:39).
We believe that God gave the Scriptures through men whom he chose, using the language they knew and the style of writing they had. He used Moses and the prophets to write the Old Testament in Hebrew (some portions in Aramaic) and the evangelists and apostles to write the New Testament in Greek.
We believe that in a miraculous way that goes beyond all human investigation, God the Holy Spirit moved these men to write his Word. These men "spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). What they said was spoken "not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13). Every thought they expressed and every word they used were given them by the Holy Spirit. Saint Paul wrote to Timothy, "All Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16). The church has called this miraculous process inspiration, which means "breathing into." Since every word of Scripture was inspired, we also call this process verbal inspiration, or word-for-word inspiration. This is not to be equated with mechanical dictation, since the Holy Spirit guided the writers as they used their individual vocabularies and writing styles.
We believe that Scripture is a unified whole, true and without error in everything it says, for the Savior said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). Therefore it is the infallible authority and guide for everything we believe and do.
We believe that the Bible is fully sufficient, clearly teaching people all they need to know to get to heaven. It makes them "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15), and it equips them for "every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17). Since God's plan of salvation has been fully revealed in the canonical books of the Bible, we need and expect no other revelations (Hebrews 1:1,2). The church is built on the teachings of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20).
We believe and accept the Bible on its own terms, accepting as factual history what it presents as history and recognizing as figurative speech what is evident as such. We believe that Scripture must interpret Scripture, clear passages throwing light on those less easily understood. We believe that no authority--whether it is human reason, science, or scholarship--may stand in judgment over Scripture. Sound scholarship will faithfully search out the true meaning of Scripture without presuming to pass judgment on it.
We believe that the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament and the Greek text of the New Testament are the inspired Word of God. Translations of the Hebrew and Greek that accurately reflect the meaning of the original text convey God's truth to people and can properly be called the Word of God.
Although the original documents themselves have been lost, we believe that the Lord in his providential care has accurately preserved the Hebrew and Greek texts through the many hand-copied manuscripts that exist. Although there are minor differences or "variants" between the various hand-copied manuscripts, these variants do not cause any changes in doctrine.
We reject any worship that is not directed to the triune God as revealed in the Bible. We reject the use of feminine names and pronouns for God because in Scripture God reveals himself as Father and Son. We reject the opinion that all religions lead to the same God.
We reject any thought that makes only part of Scripture God's Word or that allows for the possibility of factual error in Scripture, even in so-called nonreligious matters such as historical or geographical details. We likewise reject all views that say Scripture is merely a human record of God's revelation as he encounters mankind in history, and so is a record subject to human imperfections.
We reject any emphasis upon Jesus as the personal Word of God (John 1:1) that minimizes the role of the Scriptures as the written Word of God (Romans 3:2).
This is what Scripture teaches about God and his revelation. This we believe, teach, and confess.
Agreed, as per Clint’s suggestion, let's start a new thread.
As I am going out to a restaurant inspired by God, to eat food designed by God. I shall be back after 11:00pm and will meet up with you then.
In the meantime, enjoy your evening formed by chance out of chaos of the cosmos, while you watch TV or something created by chance during evolution, while you enjoy petting your cat or dog evolved from a chance mud hole and chemical soup mix.
[ March 14, 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
As I am going out to a restaurant inspired by God, to eat food designed by God. I shall be back after 11:00pm and will meet up with you then.
In the meantime, enjoy your evening formed by chance out of chaos of the cosmos, while you watch TV or something created by chance during evolution, while you enjoy petting your cat or dog evolved from a chance mud hole and chemical soup mix.
[ March 14, 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
As David and post-it have reached a decision to begin a new thread, this one is closed at 9:25 eastern time, 3/14/02.
Clint Kritzer
Moderator
Clint Kritzer
Moderator