Airs

[Iconoclast]

saturneptune

Without getting into the above debate, here is a good example. Lets focus on the unwritten rule of no dancing. First of all, not a one of you can make a Biblical case for this stance. Christ said if you love Me, you will obey My commands. He did NOT say make up new ones to obey based on your opinion.

As all sin is like a mini apostasy there is usually root causes.Using this example we can illustrate it. The person who for the most part ignores God's laws and commands...as an antinomian,then substitues their own list in it's place,which they find easier to follow.
They already are probably not praying and drawing near to God.
They are most times lax in their personal study time.
If they go to group bible studies they do so more for social purposes,
So their heart remains unmoved by God's word.
This is where gossip comes in...to fill the void that should be using speech to edify one another,
To gossip they must avoid lawful commands like the 9th commandment.

There is little or no attempt to Keep the heart with all diligence,or to mortify sin.

Instead comes "the list"...no smoking, drinking. movies, etc.

This becomes the facade the OP speaks about.Religion without Jesus in it.

An evil heart is the origin of such a sin. If one has decided that they are going to cheat on their spouse, they are going to find a way.

That is why we can protect ourselves by studying and obeying this;
20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.

22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.

25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.

26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.

27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

saturneptune


As all sin is like a mini apostasy there is usually root causes.Using this example we can illustrate it. The person who for the most part ignores God's laws and commands...as an antinomian,then substitues their own list in it's place,which they find easier to follow.
They already are probably not praying and drawing near to God.
They are most times lax in their personal study time.
If they go to group bible studies they do so more for social purposes,
So their heart remains unmoved by God's word.
This is where gossip comes in...to fill the void that should be using speech to edify one another,
To gossip they must avoid lawful commands like the 9th commandment.

There is little or no attempt to Keep the heart with all diligence,or to mortify sin.

Instead comes "the list"...no smoking, drinking. movies, etc.

This becomes the facade the OP speaks about.Religion without Jesus in it.




That is why we can protect ourselves by studying and obeying this;
20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.

22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.

25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.

26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.

27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

Thats good..... Id agree with that......but your leaving out two very important things...(1) Showing Favoritism & (2) Faith & Deeds.

James 2:1-13 (King James Version)


2 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

James 2:14-17

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[saturneptune]

Titles are slightly different, but Matthew 23 gets the point across.

A Warning Against Hypocrisy
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The local church gossips and the socialites sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at pot lucks and the most important seats in the church; 7 they love to be greeted with respect at the mall and to be called holier than thou by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘local church gossips’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees
13 “Woe to you, local church gossips and members who create power cliques, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]

15 “Woe to you, church socialites, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, who stick your nose in everyone elses business. You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You unspiritual con artists. Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you,local church gossips, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your income— But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, gluttons and gossips, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind church members! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, TV evangelists, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, those who put building projects above spreading the Gospel, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”

 

[Luke2427]

Luke2427



Where did I say this? Which post was that?

You said this is life and death serious. How is it if no one is advocating laxness toward sin?

 

[saturneptune]

I was reading through the old church minutes a few years ago to write a history of our church for a Homecoming celebration. I do not remember if it was the 30s or 40s, and this is no exaggeration, our congregation disfellowshipped a man for dancing with his wife. The congregation at the time broke at least half of the seven things God hates in Proverbs 6.

How I wish I could have been at that meeting. Had I had my way, the man and his wife would not have been disfellowshipped, but the ones that brought the charges. I would have drop kicked them out the front door never to return.

 

[mactx]

Why assume folks are all pretending? I know I am not a model.
My marriage is not perfect, but it gets better every year. (29 of them so far)
I strive to study and pray more.
I work hard to control my temper, I am sarcastic and grouchy by nature.
I have many other faults and while I work to correct them I do not hide nor deny them.
I try to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent.
I freely admit when I get it right it isn't me, it is Christ shining through my cracks.

 

[saturneptune]

Why assume folks are all pretending? I know I am not a model.
My marriage is not perfect, but it gets better every year. (29 of them so far)
I strive to study and pray more.
I work hard to control my temper, I am sarcastic and grouchy by nature.
I have many other faults and while I work to correct them I do not hide nor deny them.
I try to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent.
I freely admit when I get it right it isn't me, it is Christ shining through my cracks.

We would get along fine. I assume by 29 you mean years married and not number of marriages. LOL I hit 36 soon. Your post is real. What we are talking about are the smiling, manachins at church with a dagger behind their back ready to use at any hint of gossip, for one example. By the way, welcome to Baptist Board.

Here is a good example from your post. You said "Christ shining through the cracks." Those mentioned in this thread like the one described above and those more worried about dancing than spreading the Gospel are just the opposite. They look great on the outside, as Christ describes, whitewashed tombs, but inside, rotting meat infested with maggots.

 

[mactx]

We would get along fine. I assume by 29 you mean years married and not number of marriages. LOL I hit 36 soon. Your post is real. What we are talking about are the smiling, manachins at church with a dagger behind their back ready to use at any hint of gossip, for one example. By the way, welcome to Baptist Board.

Here is a good example from your post. You said "Christ shining through the cracks." Those mentioned in this thread like the one described above and those more worried about dancing than spreading the Gospel are just the opposite. They look great on the outside, as Christ describes, whitewashed tombs, but inside, rotting meat infested with maggots.

Ah yes that would be years! Yes I have met those Christians, I was raised to be one. The problem came up though when I learned to read the Bible for myself.
Personally I do not care for dancing, but I find it interesting that the church will teach against that and not say gossip or minding what you think about. Not thought police but self policing our thoughts.

Yes you sound like some one I could definitely get along with!

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you know who usually accuses others of putting on "airs". People who have given room in their lives for their own pet sins and feel convicted by others who neither allow them nor accept them. They do not want to grow spiritually and only want to be left to feel comfortable where they have chosen to stay.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you know who usually accuses others of putting on "airs". People who have given room in their lives for their own pet sins and feel convicted by others who neither allow them nor accept them. They do not want to grow spiritually and only want to be left to feel comfortable where they have chosen to stay.

I think this is on target:thumbsup:

LK2427

You said this is life and death serious. How is it if no one is advocating laxness toward sin?

We might be talking past each other, and not on the same page.

Salvation is life from the realm of death.There is no middle ground.
What the OP was speaking about is not options.....

profess faith ,but deny it in everyday life

profess Jesus, but have no fruit in the life.

profess faith, but do not obey any commands that Christians are commanded to obey.

The Apostle Paul said it in several ways:
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.


Those who were spoken of in the OP in ANY case....are not in a good position.

It is a life and death situation.

The fact that these people are spoken of,and seemed to indicate that they thought they were okay...shows the gravity of it.To discount the clear warnings and substitute carnal presumption is not wise.:thumbs:

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them,

The doing and serving is the pursuing of holiness...without which NO MAN shall see the Lord.

 

[salzer mtn]

Do you know who usually accuses others of putting on "airs". People who have given room in their lives for their own pet sins and feel convicted by others who neither allow them nor accept them. They do not want to grow spiritually and only want to be left to feel comfortable where they have chosen to stay.

I disagree. Some people make it a point to put on a holier than thou attitude when they go to church. I read a article on Joel Osteen when he first started preaching and he said his face actually would hurt from holding his grin while he was in public. I read a article online last night about Jack Hyles and how that all the preacher boy's in his era would try to pattern their style and actions after him. This is trying to be something you are not, ie putting on airs.

 

[Revmitchell]

I disagree. Some people make it a point to put on a holier than thou attitude when they go to church. I read a article on Joel Osteen when he first started preaching and he said his face actually would hurt from holding his grin while he was in public. I read a article online last night about Jack Hyles and how that all the preacher boy's in his era would try to pattern their style and actions after him. This is trying to be something you are not, ie putting on airs.

1. That is far different than what was in the op.

2. I disagree that is putting on airs. It is common for young preachers to fashion their preaching after someone else because it helps them get started and learn. Inevitably they will find their own level and work it out for themselves after much experience. But being efficient in preaching does not just come right away. Putting on a grin and working to be pleasant even when you may not feel like it is common and appropriate among everybody.

 

[salzer mtn]

I believe people could identify with pastors and people in authority if they showed real emotions when they are suffering and going through a valley like all of us do, instead of putting on fake smiles and acting like their life is on cloud nine all the time. Usually these put on people preach a health and wealth gospel or/and a positive thinking gospel.

 

[saturneptune]

Our goal should be to make work life, home life, and church life the same. There should be no difference in actions between church and any other area of life. We are Christians 24 hours a day. That being said, we have a duty to root out the gossips, the Pharisee mindset like no dancing and other such nonsense, and make our local churches what Christianity is all about, Jesus Christ, not the Tango.

 

[Luke2427]

Do you know who usually accuses others of putting on "airs". People who have given room in their lives for their own pet sins and feel convicted by others who neither allow them nor accept them. They do not want to grow spiritually and only want to be left to feel comfortable where they have chosen to stay.

On what authority do you base this claim?

Let me tell you what I think you are trying to do.

I think YOU may feel convicted for being a fake who pretends to be holier than he is so you attack people who advocate being real and open as they struggle in their sanctification while slowly becoming more like Christ.

I'm not shooting at you in the op. I'm shooting at the devil. If you are getting hit, you're standing too close!:thumbs:

 

[mactx]

On what authority do you base this claim?

Perhaps by observation?
I have known such people. I have lived in a house with such people. Which is why I strive to be what I am and not hide it.

I could give details of one such person who has caused me personal pain for years because he thought he was better than my husband. Even though years later we found he was not, the damage had already been done and the result may never be rectified.

 

[Revmitchell]

On what authority do you base this claim?

Let me tell you what I think you are trying to do.

I think YOU may feel convicted for being a fake who pretends to be holier than he is so you attack people who advocate being real and open as they struggle in their sanctification while slowly becoming more like Christ.

I'm not shooting at you in the op. I'm shooting at the devil. If you are getting hit, you're standing too close!:thumbs:

Of course you do. The op like so many other of your posts reveals your heart. It is childish in its writing and sophomoric in substance. You, in other posts, have defended getting drunk (buzzed), and you defend being rude.

So based on the totality of your threads I base this on. Do not feel to bad though apparently you are not alone. An humble person does not whine (like the op) about others who have standards you do not have. An humble person looks at them and says "maybe I might need to step up my game a bit." But a person who is offended wants to tear down others with higher standards.

You start thread after thread about similar topics. Fact is you are defensive about your own lifestyle. It is apparent you are not really all that comfortable about some of your own standards. And you want to be so you rail on others to get some peace about yourself.

Now I will give you the last word. Feel free to rail and be rude all you want. I will not be responding to any more of your posts. May the Lord give you peace.

God Bless

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Blaise Pascal said all human evil comes into the world because people can't sit still in a chair for 30 minutes! I hope thats an exaggeration. Maybe he is saying that running from silence is undoubtedly running from our souls, ourselves, and therefore, from God.

If I had to advise one thing for spiritual growth, it would be silence.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Blaise Pascal said all human evil comes into the world because people can't sit still in a chair for 30 minutes! I hope thats an exaggeration. Maybe he is saying that running from silence is undoubtedly running from our souls, ourselves, and therefore, from God.

If I had to advise one thing for spiritual growth, it would be silence.

I agree........

 

[Luke2427]

Of course you do. The op like so many other of your posts reveals your heart. It is childish in its writing and sophomoric in substance. You, in other posts, have defended getting drunk (buzzed), and you defend being rude.

So based on the totality of your threads I base this on. Do not feel to bad though apparently you are not alone. An humble person does not whine (like the op) about others who have standards you do not have. An humble person looks at them and says "maybe I might need to step up my game a bit." But a person who is offended wants to tear down others with higher standards.

You start thread after thread about similar topics. Fact is you are defensive about your own lifestyle. It is apparent you are not really all that comfortable about some of your own standards. And you want to be so you rail on others to get some peace about yourself.

Now I will give you the last word. Feel free to rail and be rude all you want. I will not be responding to any more of your posts. May the Lord give you peace.

God Bless

I love how you are rude to people for being rude.

Do you not see your own hypocrisy there? Probably not. That is why you do not like the op. You don't mind people putting on airs- it does not bother you- in fact you prefer it because it veils the painful reality- that you are not as great as you try to think you are.

I think this kind of falseness is a tremendous hindrance to reaching people in our culture.

I am not insecure about it. That is not my motive for starting such threads. My motive is to challenge thinking that I believe is harmful to the work of Christ.

Being full of bull is certainly one of those things.