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Al Mohler's response to SBC Statement

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12strings

Active Member
jonathan.borland said:
What is the point of saying the document "appears" to be semi-Pelagian, a system of doctrine that was condemned as heresy long ago? Either it is or it isn't. What is the point of saying that "most" of the people who signed it didn't even know they were championing what "appears" to be heretical semi-Pelagian doctrine? Where in the document does it deny that God takes the initiative in salvation? Where in the Bible does it deny that man has the freedom either to choose or to reject God when under the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Oh, that's right, Dr. Mohler didn't even quote one phrase that he disagreed with.
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Perhaps Dr. Mohler should have quoted that section to disagree with it. I can agree with that. His statements, however, were simply looking at a confession with theological and historically trained eye and saying, "THIS looks a lot like THAT".

If he truly believes his observations are correct...How should he have addressed it? I'm still waiting on your answer to that...Here's a few options:
-These people don't realize that it is semi-pelagian
-These people didn't read it carefully enough
-These people DO realize what it is, and therefore actually do beleive something most baptists have denied
-These people do not actually believe every little thing this statement says, but signed it anyway because of their opposition to calvinism.
-The statement is worded poorly and sounds semi-pelagian, but I know these men and that's not what they beleive (this is what it sounds like to me).

OR>>>>should mohler have simply thought to himself, "This sounds exactly like semi-pelagianism, but I don't want to make anyone upset so I'm not going to say anything about it."
 
1

12strings

Active Member
Luke2427 said:
The BF&M IS our statement of faith.

All Southern Baptists should ascribe to it or move out.
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So you think a Mixed (Arm./Cal) Church should not have any members who believe someone can lose their salvation? If they think that someone could possibly truly abandon the faith, we should ask them to leave?

I disagree.
 
Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Absolutely. A church must be in agreement on the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH or it is doomed to divisive chaos (ie, Wisconsin politics)

If someone in my church adopted the false teaching of man-centric salvation (to gain or to keep it by works) they would be instructed in truth. If they resisted the truth they would be escorted to the door.

Now on a hundred lesser areas we can be civil in disagreement on interpretation. But losing salvation? That is a deal breaker.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michael Wrenn said:
And while I am venting, I'll say that I despise all kinds of fundamentalism -- of the right and the left. They share the same characteristics. They have taken over denominations by the same methods: ignoring and rewriting their denominations' histories. They hate those who disagree with them and will not tolerate dissension. This goes for the fundies who took over the SBC, the Alliance of Baptists, the leftists who have taken over the Episcopal Church, the PCUSA, and the Lutheran Church.

I loathe them all, and lately I'm not feeling too good about the CBF, either -- once a good moderate and moderate-conservative group.

It seems this is a day for extremes -- right wing and left wing fundamentalism, with very few moderates anywhere. These extremists show nothing of the spirit and teachings of Jesus.
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According to Field Marshal Mohler, I could not be a Southern Baptist because I refuse to let a man-made creed "speak for me."


Michael,
Perhaps it is time to switch to decaf??? Your posts are getting somewhat violent and coming from a dark place.You are going out on a limb , but no one else is following.Ease up Rambo.There are still 7000 that have not bowed their knee to baal:thumbs:
Start a thread about soul liberty. Suggest what you think gets overlooked today,and we can discuss the merits of the case.:thumbs:
 
J

jonathan.borland

Active Member
12strings said:
If he truly believes his observations are correct...How should he have addressed it? I'm still waiting on your answer to that.
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"I respectfully disagree with the statement."

When he calls the statement (apparent) heretical semi-Pelagianism but doesn't quote where in the document it asserts that man initiates his own salvific experience then I begin to question the merit of his word choice. Perhaps you can help him out a little?
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Michael Wrenn said:
I know exactly what the historic Baptist principles are. And I know Mohler doesn't hold to them. His statements about the BF&M 2000 are enough to show that, as well as other things.

According to Field Marshal Mohler, I could not be a Southern Baptist because I refuse to let a man-made creed "speak for me."
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Your stated hatred of the person of Dr. Mohler speaks volumes about you.
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Michael Wrenn said:
And while I am venting, I'll say that I despise all kinds of fundamentalism -- of the right and the left. They share the same characteristics. They have taken over denominations by the same methods: ignoring and rewriting their denominations' histories. They hate those who disagree with them and will not tolerate dissension. This goes for the fundies who took over the SBC, the Alliance of Baptists, the leftists who have taken over the Episcopal Church, the PCUSA, and the Lutheran Church.

I loathe them all, and lately I'm not feeling too good about the CBF, either -- once a good moderate and moderate-conservative group.

It seems this is a day for extremes -- right wing and left wing fundamentalism, with very few moderates anywhere. These extremists show nothing of the spirit and teachings of Jesus.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ was no moderate. To imply such is to deny Scripture. There is nothing of the spirit and teaching of Jesus Christ shown by the so-called moderates. They want a pathetic Jesus Christ who offers a pathetic Gospel to a wimpy people.
 
G

go2church

Active Member
Site Supporter
There is much in his statement that strike me.

The overall tone is "can't we all just get along" when in the past Cardinal Mohler has been much more harsh and direct in his public statements. Maybe the Land lashing has had a trickle down effect on the whole of SBC leadership, which would be wonderful! The less they say the better off the Kingdom of God is.

I point out a few statements that I found odd

From the Mohler Blog:

"I do not believe that those most problematic statements truly reflect the beliefs of many who signed this document. I know many of these men very well, and I know them to be doctrinally careful and theologically discerning."

I have no idea how Cardinal Mohler would know this, just surprising that he would say that out loud for everyone to hear

Blog:

"The Baptist Faith & Message is our confession of faith, and it binds us all together on common ground....The BF&M serves Southern Baptists as our confessional means of accountability and unity. Where it speaks, it speaks for us all."

Then Cardinal Mohler, why do you require adherence to the Abstract and Principles at Southern Seminary? If the BF&M is good enough for the whole of SBC life, why is it not good enough for the seminary of which you are president of? Is it not owned and operated by the SBC, does funding not come from through SBC churches? Why Al, why?

Overall it seems that Mohler and his ilk have been put on notice. It's a big "We see what you're doing Al, how it's impacting our young people and we don't like it". It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the summer.
 
M

mandym

New Member
go2church said:
There is much in his statement that strike me.

The overall tone is "can't we all just get along" when in the past Cardinal Mohler has been much more harsh and direct in his public statements. Maybe the Land lashing has had a trickle down effect on the whole of SBC leadership, which would be wonderful! The less they say the better off the Kingdom of God is.

I point out a few statements that I found odd

From the Mohler Blog:

"I do not believe that those most problematic statements truly reflect the beliefs of many who signed this document. I know many of these men very well, and I know them to be doctrinally careful and theologically discerning."

I have no idea how Cardinal Mohler would know this, just surprising that he would say that out loud for everyone to hear

Blog:

"The Baptist Faith & Message is our confession of faith, and it binds us all together on common ground....The BF&M serves Southern Baptists as our confessional means of accountability and unity. Where it speaks, it speaks for us all."

Then Cardinal Mohler, why do you require adherence to the Abstract and Principles at Southern Seminary? If the BF&M is good enough for the whole of SBC life, why is it not good enough for the seminary of which you are president of? Is it not owned and operated by the SBC, does funding not come from through SBC churches? Why Al, why?

Overall it seems that Mohler and his ilk have been put on notice. It's a big "We see what you're doing Al, how it's impacting our young people and we don't like it". It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the summer.
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Are you a Hatfield or McCoy?
 
J

jbh28

Active Member
annsni said:
Honestly, the name calling is disgusting, IMO. You call yourselves believers and yet you mock a brother in Christ. I really find this to be so ungodly and unbecoming. No wonder people don't want to become Christians when our own attack our own. Grow up!
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Agree. We all can have our differences, but there's no reason anyone should resort to name calling and that hatred remarks some have made on this thread.
 
TadQueasy

TadQueasy

Member
annsni said:
Honestly, the name calling is disgusting, IMO. You call yourselves believers and yet you mock a brother in Christ. I really find this to be so ungodly and unbecoming. No wonder people don't want to become Christians when our own attack our own. Grow up!
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ditto!!!!!!!!
 
L

Luke2427

Active Member
12strings said:
So you think a Mixed (Arm./Cal) Church should not have any members who believe someone can lose their salvation? If they think that someone could possibly truly abandon the faith, we should ask them to leave?

I disagree.
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No. But the church should be committed to only teach and promote that which is consistent with the confession of faith of the sbc.
 
G

GBC Pastor

New Member
"The best thing about Dr. Mohler's statement were his comments against tribalism."


I actually found this an odd statement for Dr. Mohler to make since he has previously stated that the only way to have gospel committed churches is for them to be Reformed. Sounds like tribalism to me.
 
M

mandym

New Member
GBC Pastor said:
I actually found this an odd statement for Dr. Mohler to make since he has previously stated that the only way to have gospel committed churches is for them to be Reformed.
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If that is what he said then there is another reason for the statement of affirmations and denials. Very needed indeed.
 
1

12strings

Active Member
GBC Pastor said:
"The best thing about Dr. Mohler's statement were his comments against tribalism."


I actually found this an odd statement for Dr. Mohler to make since he has previously stated that the only way to have gospel committed churches is for them to be Reformed. Sounds like tribalism to me.
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Quote please...or link...SOMETHING!!!???
 
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