npetreley said:
Then you need to give up your theology and adapt to what scripture says.
Yawn!! I maintain what has been maintained for the last 2000 years, same as you.
You are implying that my interpretation of other scripture is driven by my theology, and is therefore not necessarily contradictory.
Again - Yawn!!
I said nothing about YOU np, you need to grow up a little.
It was a general statement regarding "all"
of us.
I stated that your COMMENT could "get a PERSON into a lot of trouble"
There is a reason I started with this first and then stated "IF"
your (in a general statement regarding the previous sentence's specified subject - PERSON)
Here is a clear scripture that contradicts unlimited atonement:
Nope.
Should I also mention that MANY are called but few chosen, not ALL are called, but many chosen?
Again look at the context, all are called but not all are chosen. They are called at different times however and for different purposes. First it was to the Jewish people specifically but "all" could partake if they came under Judism. Then God sent to Call to "all" else with no specific people as His representives.
Can we agree that "many" is not the same thing as "all"? Unless you want to find a way to force "many" to mean "all" in these passages (good luck), then all the free-willer "all" prooftexts cannot possibly be referring to every man who ever lived, lives or will live. All in those cases cannot mean "all" the way you want it to mean, otherwise it contradicts these clear scriptures that Jesus bore the sin of MANY and justified MANY.
No it contradicts you theology, not scripture. CHrist IS the propitiation for "all" but is applied to the few. Unlimitied Atonement but Limited Redemption. So by application (which it the verse is ACTUALLY speaking of) "many" means some, but FTR - "many" can also mean "all" mankind.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
I guess many does not mean "all" here huh. :laugh: Only some are dead in their trespasses and sins because of Adam, and since the writter used it specifically in one sence regarding many so to he meant it in the later. Even some other Calvinists agree with that! It is simply the proper mode of interpretation.
And secondly, your context deals with the Nation of Israel
Furthermore, if Jesus bore the sin of MANY, then how could "the whole world" mean every man who ever lived, lives or will live when the Bible says "and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world"?
By application upon those who believe., that is how.
You are the one that must reconsile the verses not me. :laugh:
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not ours ONLY, but the sins of the Whole World.
Look up the phrase "Whole World" and see how many times it is used to describe the elect.
NONE!
No a-priori assumptions exist here. No warping scripture according to a theology or soteriology. The fact is simple. Many is not all. Many is not "the whole world" if what you mean by the whole world is everyone who ever lived, lives or will live. So you decide - which do you want to reinterpret to harmonize the two? I'll stick with the obvious.
Your theology??
The scripture proclaims a different Truth.
