Post #20
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
All of the Conditions for the Salvation of God's Elect Were Fulfilled By Christ
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Post #20
KenH
Well-Known Member
I know my end. God has saved me through the efficacious, finished work of His Son. I look ONLY to Christ for salvation, not to anything in me or done by me. I am nothing but a vile sinner in my flesh and can do nothing to save myself. If I die before Christ returns, then I look forward to my soul going to be with Him; and when He returns, He will change this vile flesh of mine into a spiritual body, in which I will spend eternity with Him in the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.
And, oh, how I do long for His return. I would love for Him to return even this very day, this very hour, even this very minute.
Brother, in your own words you have met the condition for our Lord's salvation!
KenH
Well-Known Member
Christ met ALL of the conditions for my salvation. My looking to Him is a gift given to me as a result of His finished work on the behalf of God's elect, Christ's sheep.
But you did meet His condition of repenting and believing?
KenH
Well-Known Member
Faith, as well as repentance from dead works, are not conditions to be met, they are gifts to be enjoyed.
I still recall how my life was before the Holy Spirit regenerated me and granted me the gifts of faith and of repentance of my dead works, from looking to something I believed or that I did, and to instead look to Christ and see Him as the One who met ALL of the conditions. And I looked because the Holy Spirit regenerated me as one of those whom God the Father gave to God the Son to be my Surety and to procure my whole salvation.
Christ said, "It is finished." All of it. There was nothing left to be done, no conditions, by any of God's elect.
OK, Ken, does God or does not God demand repenting of ones sins and believing in Jesus Christ?
I'll give you some help to decide!
John 8:24
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
Question, Ken.
This is a direct command from God straight out of the mouth of the Apostle Paul.
Is it a condition that must be met for salvation?
Acts 17:30
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
KenH
Well-Known Member
The question is not whether God's elect, chosen by Him before the foundation of the world, will have faith in the finished work of Christ, their sins having been imputed to Him and for which He paid their full sin debt, and His perfect righteousness having been imputed to them( 2 Corinthians 5:21 ). Nor is the question whether they will repent of their dead works, works in which there is no salvation.
The question is whether man believes and repents by his own ability or whether they believe and repent after the they have been regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Biblical answer is the latter - salvation is 100% by the free sovereign grace of God( Jonah 2:9 ). Salvation is not 50% the power of God and 50% the power of man. Salvation is not 75% the power of God and 25% the power of man. Salvation is not 90% the power of God and 10% the power of man. Salvation is not 99.99% the power of God and .01% the power of man. Salvation is 100% by the power of God.
Faith is a gift of God( Ephesians 2:8, Philippians 1:29 ).
Repentance of dead works is a gift of God( Acts of the Apostles 11:18 ).
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
This is all very imaginative—but it is not at all biblical!
John 8:31. So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;”
John 15:4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
John 15:6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7. “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
John 15:10. “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ met all the conditions on whether or not one perseveres, abides in Him
37818
Well-Known Member
1 John 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:23, And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Acts 16:31 οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· πίστευσον ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν καὶ σωθήσῃ σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου. (NA28)
Acts 16:31. They answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (NRSV)
Notice that the verb πίστευσον is in the imperative mood—the Greek mood used for commands. Paul and Silas commanded the jailer to “Believe on the Lord Jesus” in order to be saved. The jailer chose to obey the command, and was saved. Jesus met some of the needs for the jailer’s salvation—and the jailer chose to meet the remaining need.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Jailor was given the gift of believing in Christ, so he believed , he had no choice, Christ had met all the conditions for him to believe. The Jailor was one of these Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
God is not such a horrible monster that He stole from humanity their ability choose whom they will serve, whether Baal, Allah, Satan, or the Lord God. Indeed, the ability to make that choice is a substantial part of what it means to be human and made in God’s own image, according to His likeness.
Gen. 1:26. Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (RSV)
Acts 16:31 οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· πίστευσον ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν καὶ σωθήσῃ σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου. (NA28)
Acts 16:31. They answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (NRSV)
Notice that the verb πίστευσον is in the imperative mood—the Greek mood used for commands. Paul and Silas commanded the jailer to “Believe on the Lord Jesus” in order to be saved. The jailer chose to obey the command, and was saved. Jesus met some of the needs for the jailer’s salvation—and the jailer chose to meet the remaining need.
I believe the Bible. I do not believe some poorly educated 16th century Roman Catholic dissidents who chose to disbelieve the Book of Acts because it exposes their belief system for what it really is.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Now you calling God a Monster, not good friend.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Evidently, a lot of people would rather cling to the myth of their free will, instead of admitting that if anyone is saved that it is 100% the work of God and 0% the result of anything they think or do. They cling to the myth that the fruits of regeneration by the Holy Spirit, such as faith and such as repentance of dead works, are what they try to do to get God to save them, instead of the fruits of regeneration being given as the result of regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
A Christless Theology
From the earliest times, Hebrew/Jewish people have believed and written that God created man with a free will—thus making him culpable for his sins.
Joshua 24:14. "Now therefore revere the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness; put away the gods that your ancestors served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord.
15. Now if you are unwilling to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
16. Then the people answered, "Far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other gods;
17. for it is the Lord our God who brought us and our ancestors up from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, and who did those great signs in our sight. He protected us along all the way that we went, and among all the peoples through whom we passed;
18. and the Lord drove out before us all the peoples, the Amorites who lived in the land. Therefore we also will serve the Lord, for he is our God."
19. But Joshua said to the people, "You cannot serve the Lord, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins.
20. If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you harm, and consume you, after having done you good."
21. And the people said to Joshua, "No, we will serve the Lord!"
22. Then Joshua said to the people, "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the Lord, to serve him." And they said, "We are witnesses."
23. He said, "Then put away the foreign gods that are among you, and incline your hearts to the Lord, the God of Israel."
24. The people said to Joshua, "The Lord our God we will serve, and him we will obey." (NRSV)
Sirach 15:14. It was he who created humankind in the beginning,
and he left them in the power of their own free choice.
15 If you choose, you can keep the commandments,
and to act faithfully is a matter of your own choice.
16 He has placed before you fire and water;
stretch out your hand for whichever you choose.
17 Before each person are life and death,
and whichever one chooses will be given.
18 For great is the wisdom of the Lord;
he is mighty in power and sees everything;
19 his eyes are on those who fear him,
and he knows every human action.
20 He has not commanded anyone to be wicked,
and he has not given anyone permission to sin. (ESV)
Sirach 15:14. When God, in the beginning,
created man, he made him subject to his own free choice
15. If you choose you can keep the commandments;
it is loyalty to do his will.
16. There are set before you fire and water;
to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand.
17. Before man are life and death,
whichever he chooses shall be given him.
18. Immense is the wisdom of the LORD;
he is mighty in power, and all-seeing.
19. The eyes of God see all he has made;
he understands man's every deed.
20. No man does he command to sin,
to none does he give strength for lies. (NAB)
Sirach 15:14. It was he who created humankind in the beginning,
and he left them in the power of their own free choice.
15 If you choose, you can keep the commandments,
and to act faithfully is a matter of your own choice.
16 He has placed before you fire and water;
stretch out your hand for whichever you choose.
17 Before each person are life and death,
and whichever one chooses will be given.
18 For great is the wisdom of the Lord;
he is mighty in power and sees everything;
19 his eyes are on those who fear him,
and he knows every human action.
20 He has not commanded anyone to be wicked,
and he has not given anyone permission to sin. (NRSVCE)
Acts 16:25. About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them.
26. Suddenly there was an earthquake, so violent that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were unfastened.
27. When the jailer woke up and saw the prison doors wide open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, since he supposed that the prisoners had escaped.
28. But Paul shouted in a loud voice, "Do not harm yourself, for we are all here."
29. The jailer {Gk [He]} called for lights, and rushing in, he fell down trembling before Paul and Silas.
30. Then he brought them outside and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31. They answered, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (NRSV)
Without freedom of choice—there is no culpability.
Without culpability—there is no punishment.
Without punishment —there is no salvation.
Without salvation—there is no forgiveness.
Without forgiveness—there is no Jesus
Who are you writing about? Christians do not believe such things as these.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God ordained all things that take place. Not a single atom in the the entire universe has ever moved or will ever move except as God, the Sovereign Creator of the universe, has directed. Does that mean that man is not responsible, or not culpable for his sins? No. Man is responsible for his sins, as he is the one that actually does the sinning. Here is one example:
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Now, even though God made David number the people, David was still responsible for committing the sin.
Now, did David blame God, as free-willers apparently think would be the appropriate response by David?
No. How did David react?
2 Samuel 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
As the apostle Paul declared in Romans 9:19-20 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Apparently, free-willers think they should have the power to decide what they will be - a bowl or a glass, etc. But they don't.
Apparently, free-willers declare that unless God allows them to be captain of their own fate, then they will not - to use their own terminology - willingly serve God.
I thank God that He has not left the salvation of His elect, chosen before the world began, up to their "free will", but instead salvation is based on the power of the almighty Sovereign of the universe:
Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Now, even though God made David number the people, David was still responsible for committing the sin.
Now, did David blame God, as free-willers apparently think would be the appropriate response by David?
No. How did David react?
2 Samuel 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
As the apostle Paul declared in Romans 9:19-20 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Apparently, free-willers think they should have the power to decide what they will be - a bowl or a glass, etc. But they don't.
Apparently, free-willers declare that unless God allows them to be captain of their own fate, then they will not - to use their own terminology - willingly serve God.
I thank God that He has not left the salvation of His elect, chosen before the world began, up to their "free will", but instead salvation is based on the power of the almighty Sovereign of the universe:
Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.