'All Scripture'

[SovereignGrace]

@Davyboy has been banned it seems...

 

[SovereignGrace]

More mocking of the authority of the scriptures.

Unless the Pontiff speaks, then that's authoritative.

 

[JonShaff]

More mocking of the authority of the scriptures.

Unless the Pontiff speaks, then that's authoritative.

It's quite sad really--since I was saved, The Spirit testified to me that the Word of God was "Alive" and "Powerful". It was transformative, it was my spiritual meat. The Word of God directed me, comforted me, equipped me. The word of God is How I commune with God--accompanied by prayer. I want everyone to experience God through His Word like I do. It's sad that people will reject the Authority of Scripture and the Divine realities concerning them. I'm not saying that a piece of paper is divine--I'm saying that God has left His Truth with men and we can hear from God through His Word by His Spirit to grow into the fullness of the Stature of Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It's quite sad really--since I was saved, The Spirit testified to me that the Word of God was "Alive" and "Powerful". It was transformative, it was my spiritual meat. The Word of God directed me, comforted me, equipped me. The word of God is How I commune with God--accompanied by prayer. I want everyone to experience God through His Word like I do. It's sad that people will reject the Authority of Scripture and the Divine realities concerning them. I'm not saying that a piece of paper is divine--I'm saying that God has left His Truth with men and we can hear from God through His Word by His Spirit to grow into the fullness of the Stature of Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 testifies to how alive and sharp it is, and its the same sword that came forth from the Christ's mouth as He spoke with John in Revelation 1.

It is also the thing that made Timothy(and all other believers) wise concerning their salvation.

To mock God's word is to mock God. I fear for them who don't see the sufficiency of God's holy writ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thsis confirms no such thing. Where do you get that the "writings" have authority? While they may be authoritative, they by themselves do not wield any authority one bit. People wield authority, not the words on paper. All authority was given by God to Jesus Christ, a living breathing human being to act here on earth and Jesus Christ in turn gave that authority to the Apostles, who in turn gave that authority to those leaders , the Bishops of the newly forming Christian Church who came after them.

Look, the founder of your sect John Smyth used unilateral authority and came up with a new Christian doctrine that he gleamed from the Scriptures. The Scriptures did not just come up with this new doctrine on it's own, it came about from one man using authority, (unilateral, but authority nonetheless) to proclaim it.

Please tell me where Jesus said that this new Christian authority would reside in a collection of writings? Where is it? The gospels themselves were not written until the mid to late 1st century and they only gave us the testimony of Jesus Christ. The others were not collated until the 2nd or 3rd centuries. Now tell me, did these writings magically make themselves into a book, or was there some humans wielding authority somewhere who decided which ones should be included?

Authoritative and authority - there is a difference.

ONLY Jesus, not peter, Paul or any Apostle, could transfer their authority forward under Apostolic succession, as ONLY Jesus could do that, and He reswerved that to just the original Apostles themselves? Why? Because thesupreme authority for all thingsin Christianity was not to be the Papacy, or any Church, but the inspired scriptures themselves!

 

[Adonia]

ONLY Jesus, not peter, Paul or any Apostle, could transfer their authority forward under Apostolic succession, as ONLY Jesus could do that, and He reswerved that to just the original Apostles themselves? Why? Because thesupreme authority for all thingsin Christianity was not to be the Papacy, or any Church, but the inspired scriptures themselves!

No, when Jesus said to them " ….whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" can easily be construed to mean that the Apostles had full authority to do what they wanted and if they so desired they could give this authority that was given to them, they could in turn give it to their successors. Orthodox Christianity believes this to be so, renegade Christianity rejects this.

 

[JonShaff]

No, when Jesus said to them " ….whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" can easily be construed to mean that the Apostles had full authority to do what they wanted and if they so desired they could give this authority that was given to them, they could in turn give it to their successors. Orthodox Christianity believes this to be so, renegade Christianity rejects this.

And what does that look like fleshed out? Authority to do exactly what?

 

[Adonia]

Authority to do exactly what?

To guide the faithful. To come up with the correct Christian doctrine. To fight heresies that would arise from time to time.

 

[JonShaff]

To guide the faithful. To come up with the correct Christian doctrine. To fight heresies that would arise from time to time.

And where does that revelation come from?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, when Jesus said to them " ….whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" can easily be construed to mean that the Apostles had full authority to do what they wanted and if they so desired they could give this authority that was given to them, they could in turn give it to their successors. Orthodox Christianity believes this to be so, renegade Christianity rejects this.

Jesus ALONE can delegate thatauthority, and he did JUST to them!

 

[Yeshua1]

To guide the faithful. To come up with the correct Christian doctrine. To fight heresies that would arise from time to time.

That is therole of the Holy Spirit, not the RCC!

 

[Adonia]

And where does that revelation come from?

Enough of your questions, you never answered my question from before which was: Where does it say that Jesus instructed the Apostles to just write a book and then every future Christian would take it from there?

 

[Adonia]

That is therole of the Holy Spirit, not the RCC!

The Holy Spirit yes, the guiding force behind the bride of Jesus Christ, the One Universal Church.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Holy Spirit yes, the guiding force behind the bride of Jesus Christ, the One Universal Church.

That is NOT the Church of rome, but the assembled Christians in every church, and all of the redeemed of Christ!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Note! It is the presence of the adjective "theopneustos" that creates this particular controversy. Without this adjective the argument over "ALL scripture" versus "EVERY scripture" would disappear. Without additional qualifications "all scripture" and "every scripture" could refer to the identical body of writing. But when we introduce the adjective "God-breathed" into this mix, THEN there is suddenly a big distinction between these two expressions.

There is no distinction at all.
2 Tim. 3:16 can be translated, Every Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable......etc.' Although 'All Scripture.....' is perfectly acceptable.
It cannot be translated, 'Every God-breathed Scripture is profitable.......etc.'
Why not? Because of the little Greek word kai, meaning 'and.' It has to be translated, not left out to try deceive the ignorant.

If you want to know where I got this, just Google search it like JonShaff does. I made it easy!

If this is a sample of his work, I have no interest in who he is.

He dissects and completely shreds the strongest verse a protestant has to offer for support to sola scriptura.

Even the Roman Catholic translators of the Jerusalem Bible know better than that.

Yet again, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not prove Sola Scriptura.

I think you'll find it does.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no distinction at all.
2 Tim. 3:16 can be translated, Every Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable......etc.' Although 'All Scripture.....' is perfectly acceptable.
It cannot be translated, 'Every God-breathed Scripture is profitable.......etc.'
Why not? Because of the little Greek word kai, meaning 'and.' It has to be translated, not left out to try deceive the ignorant.

If this is a sample of his work, I have no interest in who he is.

Even the Roman Catholic translators of the Jerusalem Bible know better than that.

I think you'll find it does.

Rome has got their folks as much tied up in their false theology as the JW and mormons do theirs!
Rome will not let the bible be as it states to us it really is, or else their house built upon the sand of RCC theology will get blown away!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no distinction at all.
2 Tim. 3:16 can be translated, Every Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable......etc.' Although 'All Scripture.....' is perfectly acceptable.
It cannot be translated, 'Every God-breathed Scripture is profitable.......etc.'
Why not? Because of the little Greek word kai, meaning 'and.' It has to be translated, not left out to try deceive the ignorant.

If this is a sample of his work, I have no interest in who he is.

Even the Roman Catholic translators of the Jerusalem Bible know better than that.

I think you'll find it does.

" and" has to be transalted as in the Greek text, cannot be italized as not being in there!

 

[MartyF]

Enough of your questions, you never answered my question from before which was: Where does it say that Jesus instructed the Apostles to just write a book and then every future Christian would take it from there?

It doesn’t.

What does your question have to do with anything?

 

[Andrew Smith]

Not disagreeing with you at all, @atpollard, but I think we can go further than that:

In 1 Timothy 5:18, Paul declares, 'For the Scripture says,' and then quotes Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7 together. So in around 63 AD, Paul regarded Luke's Gospel as Scripture and expected Timothy to identify the quotation.
At around the same time, or a little later, Peter also identifies Paul's letters as being Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16).

The New Testament Scriptures were accepted as such pretty much as soon as they were written.

 

[Andrew Smith]

No one that I have read in this discussion has mentioned that that both the Old and New Testaments were written by Godas He inspired and used humans to record same.
Now as then, He and only He knee the future so only He knew/knows how to include any future Scripture as part of His Word.