All that the Father gives Me

[AVL1984]

So you agree:
God's grace saved through the faith gifted to the one God graciously saved, by the particular atonement Jesus died to save.
Very good.

No, I don't believe that faith is directly a "gift" from God...at least not in the sense that you, as a Calvinist believe it is. The following article is somewhat along the lines of what many of those in the "free will" camp believe. I'm not saying whether I'm a Calvinist, Arminian, Calminian, or other. That's nobodies business but mine and God's. I do, however, get sick of the arrogance of the Calvinists, and their attitudes towards others in pressing their soteriology as if they have God's truth down pat. There's not one iota that they do, nor is there any proof that those who hold to "free will" have it correct either. It's fruitless to waste so much time on these conversations when we are supposed to be witnessing for Christ instead of fighting over an issue that is so divisive and won't be settled until we stand before him.

Is Faith a Gift of God? – Ephesians 2:8 Reconsidered – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[AustinC]

No, I don't believe that faith is directly a "gift" from God...at least not in the sense that you, as a Calvinist believe it is. The following article is somewhat along the lines of what many of those in the "free will" camp believe. I'm not saying whether I'm a Calvinist, Arminian, Calminian, or other. That's nobodies business but mine and God's. I do, however, get sick of the arrogance of the Calvinists, and their attitudes towards others in pressing their soteriology as if they have God's truth down pat. There's not one iota that they do, nor is there any proof that those who hold to "free will" have it correct either. It's fruitless to waste so much time on these conversations when we are supposed to be witnessing for Christ instead of fighting over an issue that is so divisive and won't be settled until we stand before him.

Is Faith a Gift of God? – Ephesians 2:8 Reconsidered – Grace Evangelical Society

The article fails to address the fact that, before salvation, people are dead in their sins. It takes God's active choice to make them alive. One does not become alive by their faith. Again, you have to address verses 4-5 of Ephesians 2 before you can jump to verses 8-9.

"But God..."

You have to deal with this and not avoid it.

If you have saving faith, even while you are dead, before God makes you alive, then you are the one who causes God to be gracious. God is effected by your choice and you can be applauded for your reasonable choice. That is precisely what 37 has claimed, saying that he reasoned his way to salvation and then God graciously saved. That, of course, ignores the fact that he was spiritually dead and could do nothing to generate faith while in bondage to sin.

"But God..."

You have to deal with this.

There is no saving faith before God makes you alive.

 

[AVL1984]

The article fails to address the fact that, before salvation, people are dead in their sins. It takes God's active choice to make them alive. One does not become alive by their faith. Again, you have to address verses 4-5 of Ephesians 2 before you can jump to verses 8-9.

"But God..."

You have to deal with this and not avoid it.

If you have saving faith, even while you are dead, before God makes you alive, then you are the one who causes God to be gracious. God is effected by your choice and you can be applauded for your reasonable choice. That is precisely what 37 has claimed, saying that he reasoned his way to salvation and then God graciously saved. That, of course, ignores the fact that he was spiritually dead and could do nothing to generate faith while in bondage to sin.

"But God..."

You have to deal with this.

There is no saving faith before God makes you alive.

The only people who believe that people are negating God's part in this are the worshippers of "Calvin." Sorry, I don't buy your THEORY...not theology.

 

[AustinC]

The only people who believe that people are negating God's part in this are the worshippers of "Calvin." Sorry, I don't buy your THEORY...not theology.

So, no one here, nor anyone in history since no one has or does worship Calvin. Your false statement is obvious to all.

So far you have raised up human will as the pinnacle of power with God reacting to human choice.

I note that you avoid Ephesians 2:4-7. Why is that?

 

[AVL1984]

So, no one here, nor anyone in history since no one has or does worship Calvin. Your false statement is obvious to all.

So far you have raised up human will as the pinnacle of power with God reacting to human choice.

I note that you avoid Ephesians 2:4-7. Why is that?

False accusations from you. I don't avoid anything at all. Nobody is denying that salvation is of the grace of God. I've stated that nowhere...So, either apologize for your false accusation or you can continue to speak elsewhere. I don't put up with bloviation from people like you. Of course God has to "quicken" a person through salvation...not before. Just because man is "dead in trespasses and sin" doesn't negate his responsibility to respond for or against God's gift of salvation....at least that is the way those who hold to free will see it...Calvinists believe that God has to "quicken" the person before they've accepted God's grace...basically saving them. So, why would they need to "repent?" If they're going to be saved, they're going to be saved regardless. Remember, some of us are elect, and some of us aren't....how does one tell?

 

[AustinC]

False accusations from you. I don't avoid anything at all. Nobody is denying that salvation is of the grace of God. I've stated that nowhere...So, either apologize for your false accusation or you can continue to speak elsewhere. I don't put up with bloviation from people like you. Of course God has to "quicken" a person through salvation...not before. Just because man is "dead in trespasses and sin" doesn't negate his responsibility to respond for or against God's gift of salvation....at least that is the way those who hold to free will see it...Calvinists believe that God has to "quicken" the person before they've accepted God's grace...basically saving them. So, why would they need to "repent?" If they're going to be saved, they're going to be saved regardless. Remember, some of us are elect, and some of us aren't....how does one tell?

I notice you don't say salvation is by grace alone.
God must quicken, even while we were still dead. That's what the Bible tells us, yet you are unwilling to accept what God clearly tells you. Instead, you have a faux tantrum.
God causes us to be saved. The effect is faith and repentance. We respond in repentance because we finally see that God is holy and we are not. We were so dead in sin that we could not see God as holy. We only saw God as wrathful and we didn't know why he should have wrath toward us when we viewed ourselves as good.

Honestly, under your prescription God is secondary to your will.

 

[AVL1984]

I notice you don't say salvation is by grace alone.
God must quicken, even while we were still dead. That's what the Bible tells us, yet you are unwilling to accept what God clearly tells you. Instead, you have a faux tantrum.
God causes us to be saved. The effect is faith and repentance. We respond in repentance because we finally see that God is holy and we are not. We were so dead in sin that we could not see God as holy. We only saw God as wrathful and we didn't know why he should have wrath toward us when we viewed ourselves as good.

Honestly, under your prescription God is secondary to your will.

That's YOUR opinion, and a false accusation and assumption. You're full of yourself and your love of Calvin. I've NOWHERE denied salvation is by grace. Maybe you need to stop trying to insert your own ideas of what people have said into what they've actually said. Go figure.

 

[Van]

Nowhere do we read that our faith must exist before God saves us by grace.
.

Again and again, this poster denies that to be saved by grace through faith, means our faith was utilized when God bestowed His saving grace.

 

[Van]

Lets consider three verses from Matthew:

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Leave the children alone, and do not forbid them to come to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

In each of these verses, the entity doing the action, i.e. coming to Jesus, is the human. So transfer into Christ's spiritual body is not in view.

In Matthew 16:24, the idea is the person putting their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, thus adhering to His commands.

In Matthew 19:14, the idea is simply the physical movement of children to come near to Jesus, with perhaps a slight implication of seeking Jesus as the Messiah.

In Matthew 19:21, the idea is putting complete faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, which the person was unwilling to do.

However, in John 6:37 the action is done by God, thus comes to Me refers to being spiritually transferred from the realm of darkness in Adam into the marvelous light of the Kingdom of His Beloved Son, Colossians 1:13.

 

[AustinC]

Lets consider three verses from Matthew:

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Leave the children alone, and do not forbid them to come to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

In each of these verses, the entity doing the action, i.e. coming to Jesus, is the human. So transfer into Christ's spiritual body is not in view.

In Matthew 16:24, the idea is the person putting their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, thus adhering to His commands.

In Matthew 19:14, the idea is simply the physical movement of children to come near to Jesus, with perhaps a slight implication of seeking Jesus as the Messiah.

In Matthew 19:21, the idea is putting complete faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, which the person was unwilling to do.

However, in John 6:37 the action is done by God, thus comes to Me refers to being spiritually transferred from the realm of darkness in Adam into the marvelous light of the Kingdom of His Beloved Son, Colossians 1:13.

In all 3 cases Jesus is addressing the Covenant people of God.

 

[Van]

In all 3 cases Jesus is addressing the Covenant people of God.

Non-germane to the topic! So obfuscation on display. The idea is to discern whether "come to Me" refers to putting an individuals faith in God and Christ or refers to being spiritually transferred into Christ. So simple a child could grasp it.

 

[AVL1984]

In all 3 cases Jesus is addressing the Covenant people of God.

Is he? What about when he told the rich young ruler to sell all he had and come and follow him? He gave him a choice.....How can anyone who, in a Calvinists viewpoint "come and follow" when he/she hasn't been given an opportunity to be regenerated? I'm finding a lot of double-speak in your posts.