All There Is About Parousia

[Covenanter]

Genea is polysemous. So what?

You should go with the meaning that the scripture supports instead of cherry picking one that fits your presupposition. That's what.

So what? Genea may have shades of meaning depending on context, & these meanings derive from the etymology - it's not a good example of polysemous. You could try cleave - asunder or to one's spouse. As Kyredneck says, your choice of meanings is more derived from your presuppositions than the general meaning of the words.

As for parousia, the meanings are closely related - when Jesus comes he has arrived & is present. The way the word is used, in its context, has resulted in doctrine being developed.

Words have their meaning, sometimes shades of meaning, but the context must be the first consideration, rather than one's theology.

 

[kyredneck]

So what? Genea may have shades of meaning depending on context, & these meanings derive from the etymology - it's not a good example of polysemous. You could try cleave - asunder or to one's spouse. As Kyredneck says, your choice of meanings is more derived from your presuppositions than the general meaning of the words.

As for parousia, the meanings are closely related - when Jesus comes he has arrived & is present. The way the word is used, in its context, has resulted in doctrine being developed.

Words have their meaning, sometimes shades of meaning, but the context must be the first consideration, rather than one's theology.

Covenanter, JoJ may have you on ignore as he does me. I suspect his ignore list may be growing.

 

[agedman]

So what? Genea may have shades of meaning depending on context, & these meanings derive from the etymology - it's not a good example of polysemous. You could try cleave - asunder or to one's spouse. As Kyredneck says, your choice of meanings is more derived from your presuppositions than the general meaning of the words.

As for parousia, the meanings are closely related - when Jesus comes he has arrived & is present. The way the word is used, in its context, has resulted in doctrine being developed.

Words have their meaning, sometimes shades of meaning, but the context must be the first consideration, rather than one's theology.

Because THIS thread is on parousia, then it is really irrelevant to bring in other contentions.

However, it is commendable to see others such as seen on this thread understand and agree that parousia as used in Scriptures must be the literal physical presence.

That is good.

 

[agedman]

Covenanter, JoJ may have you on ignore as he does me. I suspect his ignore list may be growing.

So you agree with Covenanter that parousia, as used in Scripture, is always that of physical presence?

 

[Covenanter]

Because THIS thread is on parousia, then it is really irrelevant to bring in other contentions.

However, it is commendable to see others such as seen on this thread understand and agree that parousia as used in Scriptures must be the literal physical presence.

That is good.

As Jesus is literally physically present when his people are gathered in his name ?

 

[agedman]

As Jesus is literally physically present when his people are gathered in his name ?

Is he?

 

[kyredneck]

So you agree with Covenanter that parousia, as used in Scripture, is always that of physical presence?

If that's what Covenanter believes, absolutely not.

 

[Covenanter]

Is he?

Didn't you notice my literal, physical question mark ?????

As Jesus is literally physically present when his people are gathered in his name ?

His presence with us is certainly real, literally real spiritual presence. But not physical. And he doesn't leave his dead physical body in heaven to be with us spiritually with us wherever we are - in gatherings or solitary imprisonment.

 

[agedman]

Didn't you notice my literal, physical question mark ?????



His presence with us is certainly real, literally real spiritual presence. But not physical. And he doesn't leave his dead physical body in heaven to be with us spiritually with us wherever we are - in gatherings or solitary imprisonment.

What do we read in church?

 

[prophecy70]

...only to those already on his side of the fence. Hasn't influenced this redneck at all.



Yea, alternate meanings like genea (generation) has alternate meanings, and you all cherry pick the alternate meaning that best suits your presuppositions at the moment, even if it it goes against scripture interpreting itself.



Again, only those with your same presuppositions will agree to that.

JoJ has proved nothing, just as he didn't prove anything here:

The Meaning of "parousia" in Greek

Kyredneck pointed out that this was a topic before. Logos1 explanation is "in like manner" of what Im getting at with out being so crafty.

 

[HankD]

Yes - I agree.

Agreed.

HankD

 

[agedman]

If that's what Covenanter believes, absolutely not.

He said,

As for parousia, the meanings are closely related - when Jesus comes he has arrived & is present. The way the word is used, in its context, has resulted in doctrine being developed.

(Bold emphasis added).

 

[kyredneck]

He said,

You've totally got it wrong. He clarified in post 107. So drop it.

 

[agedman]

You've totally got it wrong. He clarified in post 107. So drop it.

Just pointing out that you agreed with what now you disagree.

The basic question being that never in Scripture parousia used unless it includes the physical presence.

 

[kyredneck]

Just pointing out that you agreed with what now you disagree.

Where? Direct me to it please.

 

[John of Japan]

You have not proved anything but what Parousia can mean from the word it self. If this is a literal physical coming where Jesus beams down to the MofO, than it contradicts other passages in the bible about the timing of these passages.

Don't just make the statement that "it contradicts," tell me how.

Matthew 26:64
"You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

“And Jesus answered and said, ‘YOU unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with YOU? How long shall I put up with YOU? Bring him here to Me’” (Matt. 17:17).


Im not going to argue with you about Greek, but this still has not convinced me at all that Parousia in Matthew 24 is talking about the physical literal Jesus descending through the clouds, because that does not explain the numerous OTHER objections to that... that you do have to cherry pick the wording and verses to explain why Matthew 24 is still future.

How did I "cherry pick"? You're being very vague.

Matthew 16:28
Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

John 21:22
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

Exegete for me. How do these verses say that Jesus would come "spiritually" (without a body) in AD 70 like full preterists such as asterisktom believe? Simply quoting the verses doesn't help your position at all.

 

[John of Japan]

So what? Genea may have shades of meaning depending on context, & these meanings derive from the etymology - it's not a good example of polysemous. You could try cleave - asunder or to one's spouse. As Kyredneck says, your choice of meanings is more derived from your presuppositions than the general meaning of the words.

No, meanings do not derive from the etymology, they derive from the usage. This is Semantic 101.

As for parousia, the meanings are closely related - when Jesus comes he has arrived & is present. The way the word is used, in its context, has resulted in doctrine being developed.

And so?

Words have their meaning, sometimes shades of meaning, but the context must be the first consideration, rather than one's theology.

I could not agree more. And I have given many verses in this thread which still remain uncontested by any preterist.

 

[agedman]

Where? Direct me to it please.

Thought you wanted me to drop it?

 

[kyredneck]

Thought you wanted me to drop it?

Old man, if you're gonna keep on repeating something concerning me that is false I want you to prove it.

Drop it or prove it.

 

[prophecy70]

Exegete for me. How do these verses say that Jesus would come "spiritually" (without a body) in AD 70 like full preterists such as asterisktom believe? Simply quoting the verses doesn't help your position at all.

Ill leave that up to asterisktom to answer, I do not know the exact manner in which he sees it.

My position? enlighten me on what that is.

 

[Covenanter]

And what exactly is my position?

Saved by grace through faith in Christ alone - hallelujah!!
And looking to serve him now & be with him in glory.