"Allowing" unsaved to attend church?

[glfredrick]

The Bible presupposes that lost persons will be involved with the church. That is God's intent!

There were strict laws for dealing with the alien in the midst of Israel. God, over and over, sent Israel to be a light unto a lost world, and when Christ came, He too echoed this sentiment, and more, He sent the church out to a lost world to preach the good news and to bring in the lost sheep!

Paul said this, which presupposes that there were unbelievers within the church:

1Cr 14:15-17 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.

If the Scriptures said nothing else about the world outside the church, this would be enough, but this combined with everything else about the missio Dei in Scripture makes it abundantly clear that the church is open to all.

Another thought... The people at that unregistered church would freak out over our church. Our "membership" is around 1100. Our average Sunday gathered worship runs over 2300. Whole lot of non-members involved, that God is in the process of saving, teaching, uniting, etc. Oh, that every church on earth had our problem! Most see few visitors, which means they are not really reaching anyone, and as such, they've just become some sort of religious club, not the church that represents Christ who commanded that we GO into all the world's people and make disciples, and bring home the "lost sheep."

 

[michael-acts17:11]

1Cor 14:24-25 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

 

[freeatlast]

A gal I know attends an unregistered church. She says we should never let the unsaved come to church services, that church is only for the saved and street preaching is for the unsaved. She feels very strongly that allowing the unsaved to come to church to hear the gospel is opening the door to wolves to come in and cause problems.

This is a new one to me. Is this common of unregistered churches? Is this idea scriptural as she believes? She also believes churches are "owned" by the government if they are not unregistered. Huh?

I can certainly see her point however in the church as a whole today it simply would not fly. I would not condemn her church for the stance either. I hope that they are going out and witnessing as commanded.

 

[Dr. Bob]

What is the purpose of the church meeting? Worship by believers. Instruction of believers. A safe haven and encourage of believers. Evangelism is done one-on-one by church members in homes, office, etc

If the church wants to have a special meeting that is NOT for corporate worship, instruction, admonition then it should be thus advertised and open for unregenerate to come. Local church matter on use of facility.

Only in one odd place is there even IMPLIED in Scripture that an unsaved person was part of a worship of the church body. This was in the Corinthian mess with tongues. And churches met in homes, so chances of someone "walking by" and hearing and being confused was likely then but highly unlikely today with our million-dollar buildings.

Easy solution to the op - check the NT epistles and history (Not the Gospels dealing with the kingdom prior to the local church era; that only confuses when we try to mix those together)

By actual listing or solid deduction in the Bible, how many people were saved in a church service? (Implying unsaved attending)

How much instruction for the church deals with evangelism in a church setting.

The church is for God's people. Our responsibility to share Law/Gospel with the world (in obedience to the command) is not seen in the Bible inside the setting of the church worship itself.

 

[quantumfaith]

This website is sponsored by Liz Michael, a self proclaimed les1bian. She also believes the Bible containes errors.
​

Thanks for sharing Salty, these "Guidelines" amount to a whole lot of horse hooey.

 

[quantumfaith]

The Bible presupposes that lost persons will be involved with the church. That is God's intent!

There were strict laws for dealing with the alien in the midst of Israel. God, over and over, sent Israel to be a light unto a lost world, and when Christ came, He too echoed this sentiment, and more, He sent the church out to a lost world to preach the good news and to bring in the lost sheep!

Paul said this, which presupposes that there were unbelievers within the church:

1Cr 14:15-17 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.

If the Scriptures said nothing else about the world outside the church, this would be enough, but this combined with everything else about the missio Dei in Scripture makes it abundantly clear that the church is open to all.

Another thought... The people at that unregistered church would freak out over our church. Our "membership" is around 1100. Our average Sunday gathered worship runs over 2300. Whole lot of non-members involved, that God is in the process of saving, teaching, uniting, etc. Oh, that every church on earth had our problem! Most see few visitors, which means they are not really reaching anyone, and as such, they've just become some sort of religious club, not the church that represents Christ who commanded that we GO into all the world's people and make disciples, and bring home the "lost sheep."

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[glfredrick]

What is the purpose of the church meeting? Worship by believers. Instruction of believers. A safe haven and encourage of believers. Evangelism is done one-on-one by church members in homes, office, etc

If the church wants to have a special meeting that is NOT for corporate worship, instruction, admonition then it should be thus advertised and open for unregenerate to come. Local church matter on use of facility.

Only in one odd place is there even IMPLIED in Scripture that an unsaved person was part of a worship of the church body. This was in the Corinthian mess with tongues. And churches met in homes, so chances of someone "walking by" and hearing and being confused was likely then but highly unlikely today with our million-dollar buildings.

Easy solution to the op - check the NT epistles and history (Not the Gospels dealing with the kingdom prior to the local church era; that only confuses when we try to mix those together)

By actual listing or solid deduction in the Bible, how many people were saved in a church service? (Implying unsaved attending)

How much instruction for the church deals with evangelism in a church setting.

The church is for God's people. Our responsibility to share Law/Gospel with the world (in obedience to the command) is not seen in the Bible inside the setting of the church worship itself.

I am certain that I disagree with you, and that MOST of the people who come to the Lord, do so within the walls of a local church! I seldom find people accepting Christ out on the sidewalk. No, they are invited and attend a church somewhere, hear the gospel preached, are loved by the people within the congregation, and God moves in their hearts to cause repentance and faith.

The way you word this above makes it sound as if you are hyper-Calvinistic like some churches in by-gone eras. I don't think that is true, but if you sincerely exclude visitors to the church, you may be there.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I'm trying to think of anyone I know that got saved in a church worship service?

I've known many who were born again (private inward moving of the holy Spirit) and then came to a church worship to publically profess this salvation. The "hand raising" or 'pray after me 1-2-3" nonsense is antithetical to the Bible.

But I asked for NT church instruction/example from Acts or Epistles of even ONE getting saved this way. Or an altar call. Or . . . Of course the answer is NNE.

I am a Baptist who believes the Bible is the only authority for faith AND practice. Why should I "practice" allowing unregenerate wolves into the worship of the saints? The NT didn't.

 

[glfredrick]

I'm trying to think of anyone I know that got saved in a church worship service?

I've known many who were born again (private inward moving of the holy Spirit) and then came to a church worship to publically profess this salvation. The "hand raising" or 'pray after me 1-2-3" nonsense is antithetical to the Bible.

But I asked for NT church instruction/example from Acts or Epistles of even ONE getting saved this way. Or an altar call. Or . . . Of course the answer is NNE.

I am a Baptist who believes the Bible is the only authority for faith AND practice. Why should I "practice" allowing unregenerate wolves into the worship of the saints? The NT didn't.

You evidently have not been at the church services I've been at... Perhaps your church experience is different from my own, but I've seen a lot of people come to accept Christ by the same means you describe while inside a church building, and during a service of worship, where the gospel was preached.

As for the altar call, I'm of a similar mind as you. I find the incessant going on and on, all 27 verses of "Just As I Am" to be totally anthropocentric in nature. I've not seen people saved from that means, but rather from a movement of the Holy Spirit and carried onward by the example of the worship of God's people and attention to the preaching of the gospel.

As for "wolves among the sheep" I'd love for you to show me where that is a forbidden practice, scripturally. It is admitted in Scripture that this happens, but where is it forbidden? I recall Christ teaching that we ought not pull the "tares from the wheat." Perhaps you missed that teaching.

I readily admit that "church" is for the regenerate! (Duh!) But that does not exclude non-believers from being in the presence of the regenerate, and if it does, then you will have to bring some exegesis to the table to prove it. Nor does it mean that those "wolves" (who may be simply lost people who are not hell-bent to destroy the church) have to be influential, i.e., "members" of the congregation. There is a difference between membership and attendance, no?

How else were they "added to their numbers daily..." according to Acts? By walking by and hearing through doors and windows? Doubt it... Too many for that. They were invited in, heard the gospel preached, and the Holy Spirit confirmed that what they heard was truth, just like the day Peter preached from the Temple in Jerusalem.

In this case, I believe that you are letting your particular tradition stand before the Word of God.

 

[abcgrad94]

Dr. Bob, so do you agree with my friend that the church (building or meetings in this discussion) is a special sanctuary for believers to be "a safe haven or refuge from the world? Is there scripture to back this up? Also, would you say this view is a Calvinistic one (would would explain why I've not heard of it before as I'm not a Calvinist.)

I know very few people who would even listen to street preaching, but many who have come to Christ at Revival services, etc.

I've always felt the purpose of the church was to get people in, not keep them out?

 

[Jerome]

Bizarre. Sounds like the old mystery religions or Mormon "temple passes".


From the Epistle of James:

For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment. . .

 

[Dr. Bob]

Find any NT reference to an unregenerate person being in the church worship. The examples are ALL Christians (again the one oddity of that era is the house church where someone might come by and if not was all decent and orderly, he might think you crazy/drunk, etc - the lone verse in Corinthians). And this is not an argument from silence; every place the church is spoken of in the NT references it actively speaks of BELIEVERS joining together for worship, teaching, prayer, singing, edification. Never a "go out and invite the unsaved in" to such worship.

Again, we are extremely evangelistic and remember I am a missionary! But when our "church" meets for worship, it is our church. If others come, they are not "chased away" . . but we will talk with them to be [as certain as we can be] and speak of God's grace, salvation, etc.

We do evangelism one-on-one. We hold special meetings of the church NOT for worship, NOT a "safe haven" from the world but as public sharing of the Gospel - preaching, teaching, music, etc.

 

[righteousdude2]

Good Point my Brother Doctor!

But when our "church" meets for worship, it is our church. If others come, they are not "chased away" . . .

Great point, but I'd still have to ask you one thing: "Who's church is it really?" Isn't it God's church? Because we are born again, we, the saved individual, collectively, become the church. And while it is true that we do witness, on-on-one, is it not the responsibility of the church (the collective group of saved individuals) to be open to those who are searching for the redemption of sin, that we come together to worship, praise and thank our father for? Is it not important that the lost soul, searching for salvation, be part of the body when it comes together? Is it not an impressive witness for the lost to observe us worship and thank our God? Does this (our church services) not have an influence over the lost? With this in mind, should we not encourage the lost to come and be among us, for demonstrating God's greatness, and the collective group's love and gratitude for their inclusion in the family???

Were all the Graham Crusades meant only for the collective group of individuals for whom the crusade was planned and held for the sole purpose of worship and praise to God?

While you have a tremendous point, and one that would be difficult to argue with, it seems to miss the complete mission of the church, which is to reach lost in His name!

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[PeterM]

Move North.

Not sure what's being communicated here, but my suspicion is that "folks in the north are generally lost, and folks in the south have been well evangelized."

The south may be more religious, but is as lost as any other place I've been in the world... maybe more so. Religion just gives it the appearance of righteousness.

 

[convicted1]

What is the purpose of the church meeting? Worship by believers. Instruction of believers. A safe haven and encourage of believers. Evangelism is done one-on-one by church members in homes, office, etc

If the church wants to have a special meeting that is NOT for corporate worship, instruction, admonition then it should be thus advertised and open for unregenerate to come. Local church matter on use of facility.

Only in one odd place is there even IMPLIED in Scripture that an unsaved person was part of a worship of the church body. This was in the Corinthian mess with tongues. And churches met in homes, so chances of someone "walking by" and hearing and being confused was likely then but highly unlikely today with our million-dollar buildings.

Easy solution to the op - check the NT epistles and history (Not the Gospels dealing with the kingdom prior to the local church era; that only confuses when we try to mix those together)

By actual listing or solid deduction in the Bible, how many people were saved in a church service? (Implying unsaved attending)

How much instruction for the church deals with evangelism in a church setting.

The church is for God's people. Our responsibility to share Law/Gospel with the world (in obedience to the command) is not seen in the Bible inside the setting of the church worship itself.

Dr. Bob,

I am in with some of the others, and I am in complete disagreement with this post. I know that the church service is for the sheep, but it can also feed the lambs "bleating" around the fold. I went to church for over a year before God saved me. Why? I was trying to save myself thinking if I did "this", He'd save me, I'd do "that", and then He'd save me. I was still lost, ruined, and undone, bound for an eternal torment. BUT BY HEARING HIS WORD PREACHED UNDER THE INSPIRIATION OF THE HOLY GHOST BY GOD CALLED PREACHERS, this increased my faith(you know, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God). If I hadn't went to church, my faith wouldn't have increased. God was showing me what I must do in order to be saved by these God called, and God anointed preachers. As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, I would love for the little church that is my HOME, I'd love to see her filled to the top with sinners. This way they can hear what they must do in order to be saved.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

[righteousdude2]

One More Point on Inviting the Lost to Church!

It is often said that mankind is "guilty by association", therefore, can we also say that the lost are "influenced and saved by association?"

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[Winman]

I'm trying to think of anyone I know that got saved in a church worship service?

I've known many who were born again (private inward moving of the holy Spirit) and then came to a church worship to publically profess this salvation. The "hand raising" or 'pray after me 1-2-3" nonsense is antithetical to the Bible.

But I asked for NT church instruction/example from Acts or Epistles of even ONE getting saved this way. Or an altar call. Or . . . Of course the answer is NNE.

I am a Baptist who believes the Bible is the only authority for faith AND practice. Why should I "practice" allowing unregenerate wolves into the worship of the saints? The NT didn't.

I got saved when I was invited to church by a neighbor when I was 11 years old, my family did not attend church. And I was one of those "easy believeism" types that went down and said a prayer and asked Jesus to forgive my sins and come into my heart.

Funny, it's been over 45 years since and I'm still one of those "easy believeism"s.

 

[Tater77]

Funny, it's been over 45 years since and I'm still one of those "easy believeism"s.

Me too :smilewinkgrin: But 12 years ago.

This thread is a little confusing to me. "Allowing" unsaved people to attend Church????? Isnt that what you want? Since "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" you want them to come in and hear it right?

I don't know how it works in other parts, but around here the evangelism model is little more than inviting people to come to Church.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Yes, the corporate worship service is for the Body of Christ, not for the unsaved.

Yes, the Biblical model of evangelism always takes place outside the church walls.

However, I don't see any prohibition on allowing the unsaved to visit a local church during their worship service. In fact, my mother, who is a sociology professor, brings her classes to our church to observe and we love to have them.

The elders and I hang around with them afterwards and answer questions.

I've been able to deliver sermons that contained the Gospel, as well as been able to present the Gospel plainly to them as a result.

I'd rather have an unsaved person come to our church and pick up the Gospel by osmosis, than to have guards stationed at the door like Studio 54 telling people who can come in and who can't.

We're not Mormons, you know.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Me too :smilewinkgrin: But 12 years ago.

This thread is a little confusing to me. "Allowing" unsaved people to attend Church????? Isnt that what you want? Since "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" you want them to come in and hear it right?

I don't know how it works in other parts, but around here the evangelism model is little more than inviting people to come to Church.

You would think so. But maybe the problem is that the church today is so geared toward being "seeker sensitive" (that is, forgetting that the church service is for the Body of Christ and tailoring it to the unsaved) that they've confused allowing the unsaved with capitulating to the unsaved.