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Altar call
- Thread starter TurboMike
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by susanpet:
It sounds like some of you have never felt the need to go back to the altar after you were saved. I believe it is there for the christians also.What's wrong with bowing on your knees and talking to the Lord?
Susan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is the only place you can bow your knees and talk to the Lord at the "altar" ?
It sounds like some of you have never felt the need to go back to the altar after you were saved. I believe it is there for the christians also.What's wrong with bowing on your knees and talking to the Lord?
Susan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is the only place you can bow your knees and talk to the Lord at the "altar" ?
Why don't the advocates of the so called altar call check up the word altar in Strong's concordance and thus go to the written and inspired word of God for guidance. I would think you will find no back up for this manmade invention from the word of the Lord God. It is a fact that this practice was introduced by rank arminians, wolves in sheep's clothing. Some say it is rooted in C G Finney, the semipelagian heretic, who wrought his mischief in the 1800's. Some say it was some other, but there is probably agreement that it came in the 19th century. If it is not stipulated in the word of God it is to be shunned and avoided as non-scriptural. All forms of worship (including altar call practice) not commanded by God in His word is unbiblical and without divine warrant, thus lawlessness. Although I am not Reformed (as they say)I feel many of them Reformed people of old had a good grasp regarding the so called Regulative Principle. Learn what this principle is and you might look differently on altar calls. Here is a link to a short introduction to this doctrine, at a Baptist site. http://www.the-faith.org.uk/regulative.html
Harald
Harald
Hi All,
We have a rather unique church (I think!) in that we have an altar call *before* the service. This call is a time to pray, and prepare yourself for the message. I find it really helpful...especially when you chatting with other people or come to church with 50 other things on your mind. Basically a time to focus on God.
At the end of the service there is also a call, and if someone comes forward for salvation...a few men/women take that person to a room and talk to them, often leading them to the Lord. But also a lot of people go forward or pray where they are, for guidance, under conviction...etc. Its quiet time with the Lord, to meditate on the message.
Having gone from a church with basically no altar call, to one with frequent calls...I have to say that I prefer the calls. But I think a follow-up on a raised hand during a salvation question is very important.
"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown: but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." Mark 4:15
But also for a saved person, a time to focus on God quietly before and after the service is very helpful...and seems to put everyone in a mind to focus on the message and worship.
Hugs,
~SeaFlower~
We have a rather unique church (I think!) in that we have an altar call *before* the service. This call is a time to pray, and prepare yourself for the message. I find it really helpful...especially when you chatting with other people or come to church with 50 other things on your mind. Basically a time to focus on God.
At the end of the service there is also a call, and if someone comes forward for salvation...a few men/women take that person to a room and talk to them, often leading them to the Lord. But also a lot of people go forward or pray where they are, for guidance, under conviction...etc. Its quiet time with the Lord, to meditate on the message.
Having gone from a church with basically no altar call, to one with frequent calls...I have to say that I prefer the calls. But I think a follow-up on a raised hand during a salvation question is very important.
"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown: but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." Mark 4:15
But also for a saved person, a time to focus on God quietly before and after the service is very helpful...and seems to put everyone in a mind to focus on the message and worship.
Hugs,
~SeaFlower~
paul hadik
New Member
are we supposed to be inviting the unsaved to our services? Isn't church the gathering of believers? I was in a church out here in the Pacific where for 2 years the resident missionary only gave salvation messages. Either he was doing a lousy job or (if all of us were unsaved) we were never really a church at all.
shouldn't we be doing our witnessing Mondays-Saturdays? Sundays should be the gathering of believers to worship Christ. Hence the altar call for the unsaved becomes unnecessary.
(Great posts from both the pastors by the way)
shouldn't we be doing our witnessing Mondays-Saturdays? Sundays should be the gathering of believers to worship Christ. Hence the altar call for the unsaved becomes unnecessary.
(Great posts from both the pastors by the way)
This is my 1000th post and I'm happy to say I MADE IT! Anyway...on to the issue at hand! LoL
My church has an altar call that is not limited to inviting those that do not know the Lord Jesus to come and speak with someone who can show them in the Bible who He is and what we can do to receive Him. Our altar is also used to confess our sins before the throne. YES, I know I can do that ANYWHERE, but sometimes, I feel a need to do so right then and there based on what God has laid upon my heart thru the message I just heard. I like the altar call personally...I got saved by taking that nerve racking walk down the aisle of a 2000+ member church right to the front and was SHOWN the plan of salvation. Sure, I could have gotten saved any old way, but I don't discount the altar call as being an effective means of reaching the lost...I'm living proof! And if anyone thinks it's easy to step out in front of a church full of people you don't even know, then I'm sorry, you're crazy...I'm not into being "noticed"...I would rather have shrunk down in the pew and pretended that I didn't feel the Spirit leading me to the truth. I for one PRAISE THE LORD for the altar call!
Kathy
<><
My church has an altar call that is not limited to inviting those that do not know the Lord Jesus to come and speak with someone who can show them in the Bible who He is and what we can do to receive Him. Our altar is also used to confess our sins before the throne. YES, I know I can do that ANYWHERE, but sometimes, I feel a need to do so right then and there based on what God has laid upon my heart thru the message I just heard. I like the altar call personally...I got saved by taking that nerve racking walk down the aisle of a 2000+ member church right to the front and was SHOWN the plan of salvation. Sure, I could have gotten saved any old way, but I don't discount the altar call as being an effective means of reaching the lost...I'm living proof! And if anyone thinks it's easy to step out in front of a church full of people you don't even know, then I'm sorry, you're crazy...I'm not into being "noticed"...I would rather have shrunk down in the pew and pretended that I didn't feel the Spirit leading me to the truth. I for one PRAISE THE LORD for the altar call!
Kathy
<><
It is true that the local church is to be comprised of born again people. There is no indication of an "unsaved" person every being a part of the church.
Okay, Ananias and Sapphira are up for debate, but you get the point. The church (and its preaching/teaching) is designed for one purpose: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry and for the edifying of the body of Christ:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We will go out from the "cocoon" of the church and reach our friends and neighbors and the whole world with the Gospel. But when did we get the notion to bring the unsaved INTO the church and let the pastor/preacher do the evangelism?
Okay, Ananias and Sapphira are up for debate, but you get the point. The church (and its preaching/teaching) is designed for one purpose: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry and for the edifying of the body of Christ:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We will go out from the "cocoon" of the church and reach our friends and neighbors and the whole world with the Gospel. But when did we get the notion to bring the unsaved INTO the church and let the pastor/preacher do the evangelism?
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
Unbelievers in a church setting is a rare site??????? We have them every service!!!!!
Some are deceived church members, others are visitors. We have unsaved visitors every Sunday and in our midweek service. Yes, we have had many church members saved who had made false professions!
As for Altar call there is a young lady who was saved yesterday that would shout hallelujah for an altar call.
It is so easy for one to come under conviction, delay surrendering to what the Lord is speaking to them about, go home become distracted and never deal with it. When the spirit speaks it is time to respond! This means at any time home, work or at church. There are so many distractions in the world today many don't hear the Lord speak during the week. When the Word is preached they come under conviction and the altar call is an opportunity to deal with it right away before we harden our heart.
Ernie
Some are deceived church members, others are visitors. We have unsaved visitors every Sunday and in our midweek service. Yes, we have had many church members saved who had made false professions!
As for Altar call there is a young lady who was saved yesterday that would shout hallelujah for an altar call.
It is so easy for one to come under conviction, delay surrendering to what the Lord is speaking to them about, go home become distracted and never deal with it. When the spirit speaks it is time to respond! This means at any time home, work or at church. There are so many distractions in the world today many don't hear the Lord speak during the week. When the Word is preached they come under conviction and the altar call is an opportunity to deal with it right away before we harden our heart.
Ernie
paul hadik
New Member
Ernie:
none of us deny that a church setting may have unsaved. The point is however that many church services are now being geared to reach the unsaved. They are primarily evangelistic in nature and that is where some of us are uncomfortable. We are called to be witnesses, but I feel that when gathered together on Sundays are time should be in worship of God not in trying to reach the lost.
Also I have some problems with this idea of the Spirit prompting us and if there is no altar call we then have the capability to toss him from the ring and blame it on the lack of an altar call.
none of us deny that a church setting may have unsaved. The point is however that many church services are now being geared to reach the unsaved. They are primarily evangelistic in nature and that is where some of us are uncomfortable. We are called to be witnesses, but I feel that when gathered together on Sundays are time should be in worship of God not in trying to reach the lost.
Also I have some problems with this idea of the Spirit prompting us and if there is no altar call we then have the capability to toss him from the ring and blame it on the lack of an altar call.
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ernie:
none of us deny that a church setting may have unsaved. The point is however that many
church services are now being geared to reach the unsaved. They are primarily evangelistic
in nature and that is where some of us are uncomfortable. We are called to be witnesses,
but I feel that when gathered together on Sundays are time should be in worship of God
not in trying to reach the lost.
Also I have some problems with this idea of the Spirit prompting us and if there is no altar
call we then have the capability to toss him from the ring and blame it on the lack of an
altar call. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe you should read the posts below again, there was a definite inference that there
are no unsaved in the service or that they are to be ignored. We have Bible Study class,
then the preaching service, Sunday evening service, and also our midweek service. Our
Sunday morning Worship service message in evangelistic, the rest are for the edification,
rebuking and teaching. No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers, it is a time
for Christ to be lifted up, for us to reflect on our walk with him.
Yes people do resist the Holy Spirit, no lack of altar call is no excuse, but whenever the
Lord speaks we should respond, sometimes the best time is when we are spoken to
immediately after a message in which the Lord speaks to us. Satan has many ways to
distract us
Ernie
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>paul hadik
Member
Member # 2096
are we supposed to be inviting the unsaved to our services? Isn't church the gathering of
believers? I was in a church out here in the Pacific where for 2 years the resident
missionary only gave salvation messages. Either he was doing a lousy job or (if all of us
were unsaved) we were never really a church at all.
shouldn't we be doing our witnessing Mondays-Saturdays? Sundays should be the
gathering of believers to worship Christ. Hence the altar call for the unsaved becomes unnecessary.
(Great posts from both the pastors by the way) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
ventin
Member
Member
# 1171 posted January 07, 2002 06:48 AM I agree with the above Dr BobIn fact, as i read 1Cor, unbelievers in a church setting is a rare sight! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
none of us deny that a church setting may have unsaved. The point is however that many
church services are now being geared to reach the unsaved. They are primarily evangelistic
in nature and that is where some of us are uncomfortable. We are called to be witnesses,
but I feel that when gathered together on Sundays are time should be in worship of God
not in trying to reach the lost.
Also I have some problems with this idea of the Spirit prompting us and if there is no altar
call we then have the capability to toss him from the ring and blame it on the lack of an
altar call. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe you should read the posts below again, there was a definite inference that there
are no unsaved in the service or that they are to be ignored. We have Bible Study class,
then the preaching service, Sunday evening service, and also our midweek service. Our
Sunday morning Worship service message in evangelistic, the rest are for the edification,
rebuking and teaching. No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers, it is a time
for Christ to be lifted up, for us to reflect on our walk with him.
Yes people do resist the Holy Spirit, no lack of altar call is no excuse, but whenever the
Lord speaks we should respond, sometimes the best time is when we are spoken to
immediately after a message in which the Lord speaks to us. Satan has many ways to
distract us
Ernie
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>paul hadik
Member
Member # 2096
are we supposed to be inviting the unsaved to our services? Isn't church the gathering of
believers? I was in a church out here in the Pacific where for 2 years the resident
missionary only gave salvation messages. Either he was doing a lousy job or (if all of us
were unsaved) we were never really a church at all.
shouldn't we be doing our witnessing Mondays-Saturdays? Sundays should be the
gathering of believers to worship Christ. Hence the altar call for the unsaved becomes unnecessary.
(Great posts from both the pastors by the way) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
ventin
Member
Member
# 1171 posted January 07, 2002 06:48 AM I agree with the above Dr BobIn fact, as i read 1Cor, unbelievers in a church setting is a rare sight! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
paul hadik
New Member
But Ernie:
in truth the very definition of church excludes the unsaved. This modern day idea of "we go to church" is all messed up. Whenever, wherever, for whatever reason I meet with believers that is "church".
Sunday services should be for the collective worship of God by the body of Christ. How can an unredeemed enemy of God show Him worth-ship?
We are to go out into the world to witness not the other way around.
In fact, this appealing to the world, is one of the biggest reasons that church services in many areas have turned into the farces that they are. Let's entertain them, get their interest, then get 'em saved, then entertain them some more.
paul
in truth the very definition of church excludes the unsaved. This modern day idea of "we go to church" is all messed up. Whenever, wherever, for whatever reason I meet with believers that is "church".
Sunday services should be for the collective worship of God by the body of Christ. How can an unredeemed enemy of God show Him worth-ship?
We are to go out into the world to witness not the other way around.
In fact, this appealing to the world, is one of the biggest reasons that church services in many areas have turned into the farces that they are. Let's entertain them, get their interest, then get 'em saved, then entertain them some more.
paul
PackerBacker
New Member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers, it is a time for Christ to be lifted up, for us to reflect on our walk with him.
[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ernie,
I’ll ask you to show some biblical proof of this definition of “church.” As I study through Acts and read Paul’s letters, I’ve yet to see the church defined “No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers..” How can those who are not part of Christ’s church “reflect on a walk with him” that they do not have?
The early church met for instruction, prayer, breaking bread, praise, etc but I see no example in Acts of them inviting the lost to these times of instruction, breaking bread, prayer, ect. There were invitations for the lost to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but not invitations to come to our assembly where we will be preaching an evangelistic message with an “altar call” at the end. Those who believed the evangelistic message outside of the group, naturally became part of the church after believing.
No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers, it is a time for Christ to be lifted up, for us to reflect on our walk with him.
[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ernie,
I’ll ask you to show some biblical proof of this definition of “church.” As I study through Acts and read Paul’s letters, I’ve yet to see the church defined “No church isn’t just for the gathering of the believers..” How can those who are not part of Christ’s church “reflect on a walk with him” that they do not have?
The early church met for instruction, prayer, breaking bread, praise, etc but I see no example in Acts of them inviting the lost to these times of instruction, breaking bread, prayer, ect. There were invitations for the lost to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but not invitations to come to our assembly where we will be preaching an evangelistic message with an “altar call” at the end. Those who believed the evangelistic message outside of the group, naturally became part of the church after believing.
PackerBacker
New Member
Here are two books I have really enjoyed on the subject of False Conversions and even "Altar Calls". Neither of them is long and both of them can be found at Amazon.com.
Today’s Gospel, Authentic or Synthetic, by Walter Chantry.
Are You Really Born Again, Understanding True and False Conversion, by Kent Philpott.
From a missionary perspective, the introduction to FIRM FOUNDATIONS, CREATION TO CHRIST, by Trevor Mcllwain is top of the line on this issue. This can be ordered through NTM.org, Amazon.com, etc.
Today’s Gospel, Authentic or Synthetic, by Walter Chantry.
Are You Really Born Again, Understanding True and False Conversion, by Kent Philpott.
From a missionary perspective, the introduction to FIRM FOUNDATIONS, CREATION TO CHRIST, by Trevor Mcllwain is top of the line on this issue. This can be ordered through NTM.org, Amazon.com, etc.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paul hadik:
We are to go out into the world to witness not the other way around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen! But the problem is, we go out into the world and "invite people to church". We expect the Pastor to take care of the rest, after all, that is what he gets paid for. That is why we are so messed up!
Has your church ever had a "friendship" day or any special occassions to encourage you to "invite a friend to church"? See what I mean?
~Lorelei
We are to go out into the world to witness not the other way around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen! But the problem is, we go out into the world and "invite people to church". We expect the Pastor to take care of the rest, after all, that is what he gets paid for. That is why we are so messed up!
Has your church ever had a "friendship" day or any special occassions to encourage you to "invite a friend to church"? See what I mean?
~Lorelei
Some of this sounds kind of...well nuts.
First, we aren't to have unsaved in the church because it's a gathering place for believers only? Then we're supposed to wonder if an altar call is a valid concept and/or can result in salvation? And even question that result?
Hmmmmmm.
First, we aren't to have unsaved in the church because it's a gathering place for believers only? Then we're supposed to wonder if an altar call is a valid concept and/or can result in salvation? And even question that result?
Hmmmmmm.
PackerBacker
New Member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Optional:
Some of this sounds kind of...well nuts.
First, we aren't to have unsaved in the church because it's a gathering place for believers only? Then we're supposed to wonder if an altar call is a valid concept and/or can result in salvation? And even question that result?
Hmmmmmm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It may sound nuts because we have grown up hearing that church is a place(building), something to do on Sundays, or a denomination. Read through Acts and Paul's letters sometime and it might not seem so weird, questioning what a "church" is. Many of the Reformers sounded nuts also when they questioned "the way things were done" as compared to Scripture.
Some of this sounds kind of...well nuts.
First, we aren't to have unsaved in the church because it's a gathering place for believers only? Then we're supposed to wonder if an altar call is a valid concept and/or can result in salvation? And even question that result?
Hmmmmmm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It may sound nuts because we have grown up hearing that church is a place(building), something to do on Sundays, or a denomination. Read through Acts and Paul's letters sometime and it might not seem so weird, questioning what a "church" is. Many of the Reformers sounded nuts also when they questioned "the way things were done" as compared to Scripture.
paul hadik
New Member
optional:
you're right. it does sound nuts. Like Pacbacker said though it is because most of us were raised doing it a certain way not because of Biblical precepts.
The nuttiest thing I have done the last 2 years is a chronological and careful study of Scripture. Before then my life was vanilla ice cream. Now its tutti-frutti with almonds on top.
but hey...nothing wrong with a little nuts.
paul
you're right. it does sound nuts. Like Pacbacker said though it is because most of us were raised doing it a certain way not because of Biblical precepts.
The nuttiest thing I have done the last 2 years is a chronological and careful study of Scripture. Before then my life was vanilla ice cream. Now its tutti-frutti with almonds on top.
but hey...nothing wrong with a little nuts.
paul