Why are you trying to turn this thread into a debate? This is a "Baptist FELLOWSHIP Forum," or at least that's what the title of the forum says.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Alternatives to seminary education
- Thread starter "Lil" Possum Preacher man
- Start date
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Iconoclast,
I guess Puritan John Owen also is guilty of "misuse" of John 16:13 if it applies only to the apostles? See his commentary on the verse I used http://www.the-highway.com/hsguided_Owen.html
Other verses in scripture are clear enough to establish my case,
"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, " (Jeremiah 31:33-34a)
John 6:45, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God"
1 John 2:27, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things"
Last edited by a moderator:
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Don't expect a reply.
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother John,
If you read the thread you will see I simply posted my opinion in post 5 to the brother who started the thread who was under the impression he needed to go to seminary in order to be qualified to be an elder/pastor. In my second post, post 7, you will see I was merely responding to a question I was asked by Brother Robust if I thought people should go to seminary. After I did this, you will then see I was attacked on my position regarding the matter by multiple posters who thus initiated the debate, therefore I responded by defending my position from the Bible. I believe I have established my case to any unbiased reader from the scripture regarding this matter, thus I will respect that this, is as you rightly pointed out, a "Baptist Fellowship forum" and I will cease and desist further postings on this issue in this thread.
God bless you,
Brother Joe
Last edited by a moderator:
No kidding...:laugh:
No, but he started a Bible college for pastors
Thanks for the clarification. All I will say is that it takes two to debate. :type:
Indubitably correct. It would be a great misunderstanding to use Spurgeon as an example not to go to Bible college. His book Lectures to my Students is excellent.
I see nothing in this post to indicate its author feels the need to go to Seminary to be qualified for anything. It is simply a question to discover alternatives to costly Seminary education.
A seminary education is not a qualification, in itself, to preach. However it does provide proof that an individual is educated, at least academically.
Acts 19:9, 10 is an interesting passage to contemplate.
This passage is not proof of a seminary education, but it does point out that there was formal teaching that took place between Paul and his disciples.
It would be a wonderful thing if pastors and elders had the time to educate and train young men for ministry. Bible colleges and seminaries have filled that role for decades. There are some alternatives. From a Reformed perspective there is the Reformed Baptist Seminary and Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. These institutions are non-traditional. While they do have physical classes, they also stream them (both live and recorded). This allows a student to take classes without having to go to a brick and mortar building. Classes also cost less than traditional seminaries. These schools work with the local church, not separate from it. I am sure there are non-Reformed alternatives, but I am not knowledgeable about them.
Acts 19:9, 10 is an interesting passage to contemplate.
This passage is not proof of a seminary education, but it does point out that there was formal teaching that took place between Paul and his disciples.
It would be a wonderful thing if pastors and elders had the time to educate and train young men for ministry. Bible colleges and seminaries have filled that role for decades. There are some alternatives. From a Reformed perspective there is the Reformed Baptist Seminary and Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. These institutions are non-traditional. While they do have physical classes, they also stream them (both live and recorded). This allows a student to take classes without having to go to a brick and mortar building. Classes also cost less than traditional seminaries. These schools work with the local church, not separate from it. I am sure there are non-Reformed alternatives, but I am not knowledgeable about them.
Question to the OP if you will please?
Hello LPPM,
I hope you are well. I have not spent much time on the BB in a while. I have not read all the way through the post so forgive me if I rehash old material.
I cannot help but wonder about some folk (you not included) who want a short cut or a cheap way of following our Lovely Lord Christ into his ministry?
Dear brother, can you help and old time out along these lines?
No offense intended indeed! :thumbsup:
Be blest.
rd
Hello LPPM,
I hope you are well. I have not spent much time on the BB in a while. I have not read all the way through the post so forgive me if I rehash old material.
I cannot help but wonder about some folk (you not included) who want a short cut or a cheap way of following our Lovely Lord Christ into his ministry?
Dear brother, can you help and old time out along these lines?
No offense intended indeed! :thumbsup:
Be blest.
rd
I Second That Emotion
JOJ,
As usual you have hit the nail on the head. For far too long too many on this board in the past have tried a short, cheap route to being a minister. The truth of the matter is, a good and rigorous Bible college of seminary program is (can be) God's boot camp. And if someone cannot learn to trust God for that outcome how then will he make it in the cold cruel world of ministry.
Some of the same issues you and I JOJ have discussed with young men in the past who wanted a "doctorate" but wanted to go to some cut rate diploma mill just to get the title.
The truth of the matter is, that taking up the Cross of vocational ministry is a lifelong pursuit with no short cuts and only promotion out by death.
And if the truth be known, JOJ and myself, such as we are by the grace of God would never be who, what, and where we are apart from the rigors of our education and experience through which the Master has brought us. Praise His name!
Just the ramblings of an old man trying to understand why young guys want a quick and cheap and painless way in the ministry?
Go figure!!!
Keep in mind there is no offense intended in the particular case only a questioning in the general sense. :smilewinkgrin:
rd
JOJ,
As usual you have hit the nail on the head. For far too long too many on this board in the past have tried a short, cheap route to being a minister. The truth of the matter is, a good and rigorous Bible college of seminary program is (can be) God's boot camp. And if someone cannot learn to trust God for that outcome how then will he make it in the cold cruel world of ministry.
Some of the same issues you and I JOJ have discussed with young men in the past who wanted a "doctorate" but wanted to go to some cut rate diploma mill just to get the title.
The truth of the matter is, that taking up the Cross of vocational ministry is a lifelong pursuit with no short cuts and only promotion out by death.
And if the truth be known, JOJ and myself, such as we are by the grace of God would never be who, what, and where we are apart from the rigors of our education and experience through which the Master has brought us. Praise His name!
Just the ramblings of an old man trying to understand why young guys want a quick and cheap and painless way in the ministry?
Go figure!!!
Keep in mind there is no offense intended in the particular case only a questioning in the general sense. :smilewinkgrin:
rd
Last edited by a moderator:
Motivation for the OP?
One follow up question if I may?
Two things I have often told young ministers who come to me for advice?
1. What do you see is your part in world missions?
2. Where are you going to do your formal ministry education?
Most, if not all are not gifted or learned or wise enough by their home church to be turned loose to pastor a people and preach the Gospel without some apprenticeship or overseeing for several (a few?) years.
I was just wondering if the real motivation was money or something other? :thumbs:
Just saying....
rd
One follow up question if I may?
Two things I have often told young ministers who come to me for advice?
1. What do you see is your part in world missions?
2. Where are you going to do your formal ministry education?
Most, if not all are not gifted or learned or wise enough by their home church to be turned loose to pastor a people and preach the Gospel without some apprenticeship or overseeing for several (a few?) years.
I was just wondering if the real motivation was money or something other? :thumbs:
Just saying....
rd
Last edited by a moderator:
So Im 59 YO....you expect me to go to seminary at this late date! Please!!!
Yea well I have seen men who have sincerely studied scripture to an extent that I'm soundly more impressed with them then the few guys up the road who have advanced degrees. And they aren't trying to impress anyone with their "Knowledge" or trying to land a job with some church....they know who they are in spirit & in faith and it shows.
Now of course you will say they have "No Greek" but you know what, if that's the criterion for membership in the "seminary Trained Pastor" then keep them.
Which came first the corrupted church or the corrupted seminary?
God does not call people to preach false doctrine.
There is more false gospel out there than ever before. From whence does it come? False teachers--wolves dressed like sheep.
I recall a church where we had night classes in Bible Doctrine, Bible Greek, Church History, etal, taught by teachers with credentials from un-accredited seminaries. We had tests, diplomas and such. Accredited? no; effective ? Yes.
The gospel of the kingdom does not need accreditation from The State.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
God does not call people to preach false doctrine.
There is more false gospel out there than ever before. From whence does it come? False teachers--wolves dressed like sheep.
I recall a church where we had night classes in Bible Doctrine, Bible Greek, Church History, etal, taught by teachers with credentials from un-accredited seminaries. We had tests, diplomas and such. Accredited? no; effective ? Yes.
The gospel of the kingdom does not need accreditation from The State.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Actually it was the corrupted individual. From there we have corrupt governments, corrupt pastors etc.....generally its a, " follow the money scenario." But I can say that some are very dedicated to higher education & spend both the time & the money to prepare for ministry....if God so intended it, so be it....and if God intended some schlep He picked out of the masses of sinful, back stabbing & scummy crowds, then that's his call......aint it!?! :laugh:
Rhetorician Response
EWF,
No slight was intended for sure. All this poppy cock using Spurgeon as an example does not hold water. Neither does all the arguments about "needing knee-ology NOT theology" and "being filled with the Holy Ghost" I am a serious student of Church History and only know of one Spurgeon. But in the main most of us either cannot, or will not do what is necessary to get the goods that come to one in a strict and rigorous three year Master of Divinity program.
And again, in my over thirty years of being in an around different programs, at different levels, with different denominations, I have heard all of the arguments. And again I make the assertion that most young bucks who try to make some of these arguments are just looking for a short cut or cheap route for the ministry--when there ain't none.
And all of this has been rehashed over and over again. Say, would you want a surgeon who got his degree at "Billy Bob's School of Surgery and Car Wash?" :smilewinkgrin:
Think about it.
My thoughts.
Yours?
rd
EWF,
No slight was intended for sure. All this poppy cock using Spurgeon as an example does not hold water. Neither does all the arguments about "needing knee-ology NOT theology" and "being filled with the Holy Ghost" I am a serious student of Church History and only know of one Spurgeon. But in the main most of us either cannot, or will not do what is necessary to get the goods that come to one in a strict and rigorous three year Master of Divinity program.
And again, in my over thirty years of being in an around different programs, at different levels, with different denominations, I have heard all of the arguments. And again I make the assertion that most young bucks who try to make some of these arguments are just looking for a short cut or cheap route for the ministry--when there ain't none.
And all of this has been rehashed over and over again. Say, would you want a surgeon who got his degree at "Billy Bob's School of Surgery and Car Wash?" :smilewinkgrin:
Think about it.
My thoughts.
Yours?
rd
Rhetorician Response #2
EWF,
Allow me one more follow up if I may.
I don't expect anything of you. It is what the Master expects from all of his called ministers that matters does it not? This should be our very, very best!!!!!!
If someone in your place in life came to me and asked my professional, ministerial, and professorial opinion this is what I would share with them:
First, what is your present educational background?
Second, what are your gifts and desires?
Third, how has God blest your Christian work thus far?
Fourth, what part do you see yourself playing in world missions and missions on the local scene?
Fifth, I would advise him to enroll in as rigorous an academic program as they could find. There are many online that fill the bill this date and time.
There are so, so many out there and the amount of learning needed for the ministry is so overwhelming to the one who comes to the game late--it can truly be mind boggling.
My thoughts! :smilewinkgrin:
Yours?
EWF,
Allow me one more follow up if I may.
I don't expect anything of you. It is what the Master expects from all of his called ministers that matters does it not? This should be our very, very best!!!!!!
If someone in your place in life came to me and asked my professional, ministerial, and professorial opinion this is what I would share with them:
First, what is your present educational background?
Second, what are your gifts and desires?
Third, how has God blest your Christian work thus far?
Fourth, what part do you see yourself playing in world missions and missions on the local scene?
Fifth, I would advise him to enroll in as rigorous an academic program as they could find. There are many online that fill the bill this date and time.
There are so, so many out there and the amount of learning needed for the ministry is so overwhelming to the one who comes to the game late--it can truly be mind boggling.
My thoughts! :smilewinkgrin:
Yours?