Well, he HAS to eat, he HAS to pay his bills.
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Am I in sin?
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Well, he HAS to eat, he HAS to pay his bills.
I was down in the cellar earlier and noticed bottom shelf way back in the dark corner is a gallon jug half full of dandelion wine that somebody (I really can't remember who) gave to me years ago. As far as 'country wines' goes it's pretty good flavor; dry and strong. Never made any though. Trick with any country wine is to use a hydrometer to get 'just the right amount' of sugar in the must PRIOR to fermentation.
Correct, but he does not HAVE to work for a liquor warehouse to do so, nor did he HAVE to bring it to the BB for discussion. He chose to.
can God provide another job for him, if he chose to live that workplace, or is God just giving jobs in one business nowadays?
Could vey well be a faith bulder time, perhaps the lord is asking the brother to trust him to provide, wants to show him God is faithful?
Guess I should've read through the thread before posting, he's already figured it out:
Just got a call by a pastor at Grace Community Church and they say it is not a sin to drink alcohol nor work in a warehouse that ships the stuff. They say its a matter of the conscience. Bob Jones University and IFB Churches made me feel guilty all those years over their interpretations.
A letter I sent a BJU Church
I have heard your view on alcohol and that of BJU. BJU has a good position, the PROBLEM comes when they try and play the Holy Spirit and churches associated with the school require their members not to drink. This is legalism and playing the role of the Holy Spirit. Its perfectly okay not to drink if someone does not want to drink. I have noticed a pattern in those holding to total absence and that is to ignore 99% of those that disagree with them and their arguments, or try and sweep away their arguments with remarks like "they are just trying to justify their sin" and other such views which are completely false for the most part. One can't just sweep away the other arguments with a wild assumption like that which is bearing false witness on other brothers and sisters in Christ. It may have some truth to it for some, but not everyone.
http://claypeck.com/articles/alcohol-mars-hill-statement/
http://rcg.org/articles/idas.html
In Erwin Lutzer's book Who are you to Judge he uses the example of Christians in Europe whom drink as part of a meal or communion and so forth. They argue that wine like any food can be abused. Why do americans fixate so much on alcohol yet completely ignore the other foods that can cause damage is more of a culture bias. Also Martin Luther and I believe John Calvin encouraged drinking wine.
My conclusion is that its perfectly okay for you to hold your position and not to drink. The PROBLEM comes when you try and play the role of the Holy Spirit and take control of the conscience God has given each believer an require they not drink to be members. That is not Biblically right.
A letter I sent a BJU Church
I have heard your view on alcohol and that of BJU. BJU has a good position, the PROBLEM comes when they try and play the Holy Spirit and churches associated with the school require their members not to drink. This is legalism and playing the role of the Holy Spirit. Its perfectly okay not to drink if someone does not want to drink. I have noticed a pattern in those holding to total absence and that is to ignore 99% of those that disagree with them and their arguments, or try and sweep away their arguments with remarks like "they are just trying to justify their sin" and other such views which are completely false for the most part. One can't just sweep away the other arguments with a wild assumption like that which is bearing false witness on other brothers and sisters in Christ. It may have some truth to it for some, but not everyone.
http://claypeck.com/articles/alcohol-mars-hill-statement/
http://rcg.org/articles/idas.html
In Erwin Lutzer's book Who are you to Judge he uses the example of Christians in Europe whom drink as part of a meal or communion and so forth. They argue that wine like any food can be abused. Why do americans fixate so much on alcohol yet completely ignore the other foods that can cause damage is more of a culture bias. Also Martin Luther and I believe John Calvin encouraged drinking wine.
My conclusion is that its perfectly okay for you to hold your position and not to drink. The PROBLEM comes when you try and play the role of the Holy Spirit and take control of the conscience God has given each believer an require they not drink to be members. That is not Biblically right.
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Glad you have settled it for yourself. Now we await the next installment in your life. :laugh: :thumbs:
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
So are you going to take a can of Budweiser with you the next time you preach on the streets ?
I don't drink Beer. I only drink Mikes Lemonade. You should try some someday. Even you would like the taste. Open your horizons and try something new. Drop the legalism and give it a shot.
What a dumb question. Open container on the street is illegal.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
At least the law has got some sense.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
American Indians cannot handle fire water.
Not here.
They can see the open container in your car even. However unless they SEE you take a drink, they can not stop you. So says a county sheriff when I asked him about the drive through liquor places that sell glasses from a keg like most places sell soda.
This seems to be the place God has you for now. Be sure you do not miss an opportunity to do what he has you there for!
non sequitur. Stop upholding mans law over God's. Its illegal to have relations with your spouse on the street too.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
It is very strange to me that christians would uphold drinking when this devils brew is destroying young peoples lives in America. The line is drawn in the sand, this is where i take my stand. The bible say's it is a deceiver. You may handle it for a while but in the end it will mock you. Prov 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Hab 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink. Dan 1:8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the kings meat, nor with the wine which he drank.
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Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
This Whole Thread Makes Me Very Sad
I'm tremendously saddened by most of the conversation I have read throughout this thread. I'm NOT going to be specific and I'm NOT going to point any fingers one way or the other. I just think that some of the opinions and comments in this thread are indicators of the spiritual lukewarmness that is covering most in the church today like a suffocating blanket. Personal holiness is being cast aside for the pursuit of pleasure and personal expediency. May God have mercy on us.
Bro.Greg:saint:
I'm tremendously saddened by most of the conversation I have read throughout this thread. I'm NOT going to be specific and I'm NOT going to point any fingers one way or the other. I just think that some of the opinions and comments in this thread are indicators of the spiritual lukewarmness that is covering most in the church today like a suffocating blanket. Personal holiness is being cast aside for the pursuit of pleasure and personal expediency. May God have mercy on us.
Bro.Greg:saint:
I'm sure if this were 2000 years ago, the pharisees would have posted something similar.
Pretty original stuff, here.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
What are you saying?
You don't know me or what is in my heart....and yet you suggest I am a pharisee of some sort.:tear: I pointed no fingers nor called any names. The position I take is that we (as the church) should live according to Titus 2:11-15 which says:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (KJV)
and 1 Peter 1:13-16 which says:
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (KJV)
I am no pharisee....I simply call for those who name the Name of Christ to live obediently in accordance with His Word so that we may be a Godly example not only to each other within the church but just as importantly, TRUE "salt and light" toward them who are without...that they may see "Christ in us"...the hope of glory. That should be displayed primarily in our LOVE for Him and them...dying to ourselves...and being alive to Him daily. I don't think the world around me will see THAT while I am blowing smoke-rings at them or guzzling beer along side them. Liberty is NOT license.
Bro.Greg:saint:
You don't know me or what is in my heart....and yet you suggest I am a pharisee of some sort.:tear: I pointed no fingers nor called any names. The position I take is that we (as the church) should live according to Titus 2:11-15 which says:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (KJV)
and 1 Peter 1:13-16 which says:
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (KJV)
I am no pharisee....I simply call for those who name the Name of Christ to live obediently in accordance with His Word so that we may be a Godly example not only to each other within the church but just as importantly, TRUE "salt and light" toward them who are without...that they may see "Christ in us"...the hope of glory. That should be displayed primarily in our LOVE for Him and them...dying to ourselves...and being alive to Him daily. I don't think the world around me will see THAT while I am blowing smoke-rings at them or guzzling beer along side them. Liberty is NOT license.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Nothing there has anything to do with alcoholic consumption.
question begging. I am obedient to Christ. Drinking alcohol is not disobedience as you falsely claim. Fact is 'your' holiness is merely a manmade regulation...like the ones the Pharisees tried to burden people with. There are 244 passages in Scripture dealing with alcohol, both as a blessing and a curse. Study them.
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