Amazed By Grace?

[preacher4truth]

Calvinism/DoG/Reformed: Emphasis; God's Grace. Salvation: By God's Grace.

Arminianism/Free-willers: Emphasis; Man's faith. Salvation: Saved by faith.*

* note that the second portion above does not reflect each and every Arminian, but reflects upon some in the BB, and upon others who say it is not Grace that saves.

So, are Calvinists/Reformed/DoG holders Amazed by Grace, and others Amazed by Faith?

If so, who is getting the Glory with these views? Or is it not about Gods Glory but about mans glory too?

Do we sing Amazing Grace, or Amazing Faith?

- Peace and Grace to His Chosen

 

[JesusFan]

Calvinism/DoG/Reformed: Emphasis; God's Grace. Salvation: By God's Grace.

Arminianism/Free-willers: Emphasis; Man's faith. Salvation: Saved by faith.*

* note that the second portion above does not reflect each and every Arminian, but reflects upon some in the BB, and upon others who say it is not Grace that saves.

So, are Calvinists/Reformed/DoG holders Amazed by Grace, and others Amazed by Faith?

If so, who is getting the Glory with these views? Or is it not about Gods Glory but about mans glory too?

Do we sing Amazing Grace, or Amazing Faith?

- Peace and Grace to His Chosen

ALL depends on which emphasis is placed!

i thank GOD that he allowed me to place faith in Jesus and become saved by His grace and mercy?
OR
thank God MY faith allowed/permitted Giod to save me?

 

[preacher4truth]

ALL depends on which emphasis is placed!

i thank GOD that he allowed me to place faith in Jesus and become saved by His grace and mercy?
OR
thank God MY faith allowed/permitted Giod to save me?

That's why the OP is about both emphases.

 

[Skandelon]

Calvinism/DoG/Reformed: Emphasis; God's Grace. Salvation: By God's Grace.

Arminianism/Free-willers: Emphasis; Man's faith. Salvation: Saved by faith.*

* note that the second portion above does not reflect each and every Arminian, but reflects upon some in the BB, and upon others who say it is not Grace that saves.

Could you point us to one person here or any where who says "it is not Grace that saves?" We believe as you do, that we are saved "by Grace through faith." Even our ability to believe in Christ is graciously granted to us by our creator.

With all due respect, I say this is love and with gentleness, but once again I believe you are attacking a straw-man.

 

[webdog]

P4T continues to regurgitate the same tired line time and time again. If we all ignore it it will go away.

 

[preacher4truth]

Could you point us to one person here or any where who says "it is not Grace that saves?" We believe as you do, that we are saved "by Grace through faith." Even our ability to believe in Christ is graciously granted to us by our creator.

With all due respect, I say this is love and with gentleness, but once again I believe you are attacking a straw-man.

It's been stated on here that we aren't saved by Grace, but by faith, that Grace doesn't save, that faith does.

I'll pass this time in searching the forums for you. There are at least 2 here that have argued this. So it's not strawman.

- Peace

 

[Skandelon]

It's been stated on here that we aren't saved by Grace, but by faith, that Grace doesn't save, that faith does.

I'll pass this time in searching the forums for you. There are at least 2 here that have argued this. So it's not strawman.

- Peace

I just did a search and didn't find anyone who denies that we are saved by Grace through faith.

Can you at least give us a name or the thread where it was said? I'd like to know so I can rebut such a blatantly false statement. Thanks

 

[JesusFan]

Could you point us to one person here or any where who says "it is not Grace that saves?" We believe as you do, that we are saved "by Grace through faith." Even our ability to believe in Christ is graciously granted to us by our creator.

With all due respect, I say this is love and with gentleness, but once again I believe you are attacking a straw-man.

One question

Did God save you by act of His Will, or did you 'permit/allow" Him to save you

 

[preacher4truth]

I just did a search and didn't find anyone who denies that we are saved by Grace through faith.

Can you at least give us a name or the thread where it was said? I'd like to know so I can rebut such a blatantly false statement. Thanks

That's funny, because I found it immediately.

It's right here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1694959&highlight=saved+faith#post1694959

Check out the entire thread.

And note post #11, #15, #20, and many others in and against salvation by Grace (that I argued it is by Grace we are saved) and they rebutted ONLY by faith.

No straw man here. Hence I started this thread.

- Peace

 

[JesusFan]

That's funny, because I found it immediately.

It's right here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1694959&highlight=saved+faith#post1694959

Check out the entire thread.

And note post #11, #15, #20, and many others in and against salvation by Grace (that I argued it is by Grace we are saved) and they rebutted ONLY by faith.

No straw man here. Hence I started this thread.

- Peace

Actually, some here hold thast it IS by Grace,of God, but that grace is found in the Gospel itself, when one hears that preached, than we can freely accept/reject Jesus, no other Grace needed!

 

[preacher4truth]

Actually, some here hold thast it IS by Grace,of God, but that grace is found in the Gospel itself, when one hears that preached, than we can freely accept/reject Jesus, no other Grace needed!

Which is one reason as to why I created this thread.

 

[JesusFan]

Which is one reason as to why I created this thread.

Per that viewpoint, God so honors our 'free will" that he allows us to be ultimate basis of getting saved, we need to "permit" God to be able to save us...

 

[Skandelon]

That's funny, because I found it immediately.

It's right here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1694959&highlight=saved+faith#post1694959

Check out the entire thread.

And note post #11, #15, #20, and many others in and against salvation by Grace (that I argued it is by Grace we are saved) and they rebutted ONLY by faith.

No straw man here. Hence I started this thread.

- Peace

I believe if you look at the context of your discussion DHK explains you his view when you confront him with this charge.

You wrote: "Grace alone, champ. But you don't believe it was grace alone, correct?"

He replied: "The grace of Christ that provides salvation that must be accepted by faith alone."

So, clearly he affirms the need for grace and affirms the simple truth that we are saved by grace through faith. The word "though" is inner changeable with the word "by" as both connote the means by which grace is applied. Maybe that is what is causing your confusion?

 

[webdog]

Per that viewpoint, God so honors our 'free will" that he allows us to be ultimate basis of getting saved, we need to "permit" God to be able to save us...

JesusFan, you are as bad as P4T. You have been told more times than I care to count how untrue this is. PLEASE learn and quit smearing intentionally, as this is what it has become...intentional. It is no longer a matter of ignorance but has become a smear campaign, and is dishonest.

 

[preacher4truth]

I believe if you look at the context of your discussion DHK explains you his view when you confront him with this charge.

You wrote: "Grace alone, champ. But you don't believe it was grace alone, correct?"

He replied: "The grace of Christ that provides salvation that must be accepted by faith alone."

So, clearly he affirms the need for grace and affirms the simple truth that we are saved by grace through faith. The word "though" is inner changeable with the word "by" as both connote the means by which grace is applied. Maybe that is what is causing your confusion?

No confusion here. I've looked at the context and was in the context myself. The debate was against the fact we are saved by grace. And he was not the only proponent against my statement that we are saved by grace.

I'm not sure what is causing your confusion when the whole entire thing began as a dismissal of "saved by grace" and turned into "we're saved by faith not grace." Note also #2, #15, #61, #62, #81.

 

[JesusFan]

JesusFan, you are as bad as P4T. You have been told more times than I care to count how untrue this is. PLEASE learn and quit smearing intentionally, as this is what it has become...intentional. It is no longer a matter of ignorance but has become a smear campaign, and is dishonest.

pardon me, but don't you hold thast God will not violate free will of man, that He honors that so much that He allows us to permit or reject Him saving us?

 

[Skandelon]

No confusion here. I've looked at teh context and was in the context myself. The debate was against the fact we are saved by grace. And he was not the only proponent against my statement that we are saved by grace.

I'm not sure what is causing your confusion when the whole entire thing began as a dismissal of "saved by grace" and turned into "we're saved by faith not grace." Note also #2, #15, #61, #62, #81.

I've read through the thread P4T and I don't know how to say it more clearly. Here are direct quotes from the non-Cals in that thread:

"Of course, it is by grace through faith." - Gershom

"God's grace provided salvation through faith alone." -Gershom

"The grace of Christ that provides salvation that must be accepted by faith alone." - DHK

"Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone + nothing." -Ben

"Justified by faith. Access by faith in Christ into this grace in which we stand." - Gershom

"God's grace provided salvation through faith in His Son." -Gershom

"God's grace provided me a way. That way is by faith in His Son. His grace stands whether or not I have faith in His Son." -Gershom

"So in summation, no, faith by itself does not save you. But, faith is the means by which grace travels. Without faith in God, there is no grace being applied to anyone. Will God save a true unbeliever? When one repents of their sins, they have to have faith in God. So, faith goes hand-in-hand with grace." -Convicted1

"Grace "and" faith "and" belief. Grace must be first, as it only due to God's Grace that salvation has been provided. But it must also be noticed that without all of the variables in place the statement would be incomplete and thus not true. Grace has been provided, which we all agree, thus it should be considered a mathematical constant."

"you are saved by grace through faith. Grace is always there. But salvation is dependent upon faith. No faith, no salvation." -Gershom

Need I go on?

Clearly they do not believe that one is saved apart from God's grace. They are all correctly arguing that we are saved by God's grace alone through the means of faith alone. You are the one arguing "either/or" while they are arguing "both/and" because that is what scripture teaches.

P4T, Even Calvinists affirm the necessity of faith for salvation and so should you.

 

[JesusFan]

I've read through the thread P4T and I don't know how to say it more clearly. Here are direct quotes from the non-Cals in that thread:

"Of course, it is by grace through faith." - Gershom

"God's grace provided salvation through faith alone." -Gershom

"The grace of Christ that provides salvation that must be accepted by faith alone." - DHK

"Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone + nothing." -Ben

"Justified by faith. Access by faith in Christ into this grace in which we stand." - Gershom

"God's grace provided salvation through faith in His Son." -Gershom

"God's grace provided me a way. That way is by faith in His Son. His grace stands whether or not I have faith in His Son." -Gershom

"So in summation, no, faith by itself does not save you. But, faith is the means by which grace travels. Without faith in God, there is no grace being applied to anyone. Will God save a true unbeliever? When one repents of their sins, they have to have faith in God. So, faith goes hand-in-hand with grace." -Convicted1

"Grace "and" faith "and" belief. Grace must be first, as it only due to God's Grace that salvation has been provided. But it must also be noticed that without all of the variables in place the statement would be incomplete and thus not true. Grace has been provided, which we all agree, thus it should be considered a mathematical constant."

"you are saved by grace through faith. Grace is always there. But salvation is dependent upon faith. No faith, no salvation." -Gershom

Need I go on?

Clearly they do not believe that one is saved apart from God's grace. They are all correctly arguing that we are saved by God's grace alone through the means of faith alone. You are the one arguing "either/or" while they are arguing "both/and" because that is what scripture teaches.

P4T, Even Calvinists affirm the necessity of faith for salvation and so should you.

Does the Grace of God produce the faith in us, or does our faith allow Grace of God to work for us though?

DO agree that faith in jesus is what allows us to access Grace of God and become saved, is it totally of us, or as a Gift from God, or both?

 

[preacher4truth]

I've read through the thread P4T and I don't know how to say it more clearly. P4T, Even Calvinists affirm the necessity of faith for salvation and so should you.

Of course I could go through the thread and quote those also. I don't disagree with that. Do you?

Anyone can look at the entire thread in context. I'm sorry you've gone through all the cut and paste. The context of the thread is a different story.

By grace are you what?

My contention in that thread was that Grace saved me, not faith.

 

[Skandelon]

Does the Grace of God produce the faith in us, or does our faith allow Grace of God to work for us though?

DO agree that faith in jesus is what allows us to access Grace of God and become saved, is it totally of us, or as a Gift from God, or both?

Depends on if you consider the gospel a gracious work of God or not.