Amazed By Grace?

[Skandelon]

You believe your faith saved you?

It's been explained many times. We believe that we are saved by grace which is applied through faith, so it would not be inaccurate to save that on is saved by/through faith because that the means through which saving grace is applied. I don't think I can explain that any more clearly. This is very basic and something Cals and Arms should have in common.

No where does Paul ever state that he was saved by his faith, but he certainly magnifies the grace that saved him.

Ok, can you explain in what context it would ever be okay to say that faith has nothing to do with your salvation, especially in light of the verses that have been presented to you again and again without a single rebuttal?

My faith didn't save me. His grace saved me.

As explained, those are not mutually exclusive.

Out of all seriousness you should look at sola gratia, then sola fide

Why, I affirm the need for both, while you appear to deny the need for one.

Do we say "My faith saved me?"

Really? My faith saved me? Not even close. I think it is a misunderstanding really.

Or is it, He saved me by His Grace?

How about we stick with the scripture: "We are saved by grace through faith." and "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand..."

 

[Skandelon]

Or how about "Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness."

 

[preacher4truth]

It's been explained many times. We believe that we are saved by grace which is applied through faith, so it would not be inaccurate to save that on is saved by/through faith because that the means through which saving grace is applied. I don't think I can explain that any more clearly. This is very basic and something Cals and Arms should have in common.

Ok, can you explain in what context it would ever be okay to say that faith has nothing to do with your salvation, especially in light of the verses that have been presented to you again and again without a single rebuttal?

As explained, those are not mutually exclusive.

Why, I affirm the need for both, while you appear to deny the need for one.

How about we stick with the scripture: "We are saved by grace through faith." and "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand..."

I've stuck to the Scriptures..."by grace are you saved..."

Not by faith you are saved. Think about it.

Some of us our getting this. I used to believe as you, but I don't believe my faith saved me. Grace is the part that does the saving.

Note your own verse teaches we stand by Grace, not faith. That standing is Salvation, and it is clearly Grace that did it. We may have access to it by faith, but it is the Grace part that saved.

I'd be grateful if you'd retract your comment, based upon taking my comment in an isolated, way out of context manner. I've explained my position thoroughly, it is not completely unbiblical as you accuse, it's just that you aren't understanding it yet.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

Or how about "Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Dunno. Maybe do a study on it and figure out was he saved in chapter 12 by Grace, and perhaps distinguish it from 15:6 when he was justified faith, by God. Maybe these mean two different things?

Believe me, I had millions of questions. Now I completely understand I was saved by Grace. It is the part that saves.

- Peace

 

[Gershom]

Of course I could go through the thread and quote those also. I don't disagree with that. Do you?

Anyone can look at the entire thread in context. I'm sorry you've gone through all the cut and paste. The context of the thread is a different story.

By grace are you what?

My contention in that thread was that Grace saved me, not faith.

You cannot divorce the two, brother.

 

[preacher4truth]

You cannot divorce the two, brother.

I understand that. I also understand it is the Grace part that does the saving.

 

[Winman]

P4T, you have allowed men to make you afraid of doing the very thing you must do to be saved. You must come to Jesus personally and trust him to be saved.

Jn 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Is that difficult to understand? Did Jesus clearly imply you must come to him to have life?

Would Jesus lie? Does he use misleading statements? Is he going to reject you for coming to him after he said you must come to him?

It is true we are saved by grace, none of us merited it. But you must trust Jesus and come to him to receive his grace.

 

[preacher4truth]

P4T, you have allowed men to make you afraid of doing the very thing you must do to be saved.

Uh...what????

Wherever you came up with this is beyond me. I couldn't care less what man thinks of me.

Which men are you referring to here? Lot's of assuming is happening between your ears Winman.

 

[Skandelon]

I understand that. I also understand it is the Grace part that does the saving.

It's actually grace applied through faith. Even Calvinists affirm this very basic doctrinal truth brother.

 

[Skandelon]

I've stuck to the Scriptures..."by grace are you saved..."

what do you leave out with those three dots? "through faith."

That is the scripture. You can't leave out the faith.

We may have access to it by faith, but it is the Grace part that saved.

Before you said, "Faith has nothing to do with salvation"
Now you say, "We may have access to it [grace] by faith."

Which is it? I affirm your latter statement but take issue with the former one.

I'd be grateful if you'd retract your comment, based upon taking my comment in an isolated, way out of context manner. I've explained my position thoroughly, it is not completely unbiblical as you accuse, it's just that you aren't understanding it yet.

- Peace

If you would retract your unbiblical comment ("faith has nothing to do with salvation") then I'd be glad to reconsider.

 

[preacher4truth]

what do you leave out with those three dots? "through faith."

That is the scripture. You can't leave out the faith.



Before you said, "Faith has nothing to do with salvation"
Now you say, "We may have access to it [grace] by faith."

Which is it? I affirm your latter statement but take issue with the former one.

If you would retract your unbiblical comment ("faith has nothing to do with salvation") then I'd be glad to reconsider.

I'm simply showing you by doing this that it is the Grace part that saves.

It's up to your Christianity whether or not you retract this statement.

- Peace

 

[Skandelon]

I'm simply showing you by doing this that it is the Grace part that saves.

It's up to your Christianity whether or not you retract this statement.

- Peace

Retract the statement that calls it unbiblical for someone to claim that faith has nothing to do with salvation? I don't think so. It would be unchristian to allow such a statement to go without correction. Even you acknowledge now that grace is "accessed through faith," so why don't you simply retract your unbiblical statement?

 

[Winman]

Uh...what????

Wherever you came up with this is beyond me. I couldn't care less what man thinks of me.

Which men are you referring to here? Lot's of assuming is happening between your ears Winman.

You know very well who I am speaking of, are you going to play childish games now?

Have you ever noticed the action verbs in salvation verses?

COME unto me
LOOK unto me
whosoever shall CALL upon the name of the Lord
those that RECEIVED him
ASK and ye shall receive
if any man HEAR my voice, and OPEN the door
and whosoever WILL, let him TAKE of the water of life freely
whosoever DRINKETH of the water that I give him shall never thirst
him that COMETH to me I will in no wise cast out
thou wouldest have ASKED of him, and he would have given thee living water

If you are waiting for God to zap you from heaven, you are going to be disappointed. You must SUBMIT to Jesus, you must come to him, look to him, ask of him...

Jesus knows doctrine, he is not going to reject any man for doing exactly what he commanded men to do to be saved.

These actions are not what saves you, they are simply evidence of your faith and submission. If you do not really believe Jesus's words you will not come, you will not call, you will not ask, you will not open the door...

 

[preacher4truth]

You know very well who I am speaking of, are you going to play childish games now?

Nope. I have no idea who you are referring to. So, I only quote the part I am interested in.

Enlighten me to whom you speak that I fear.

No need to start your personal attacks here. Simmer down and tell me who you think I am in fear of, this "fear of man" accusation you lay on me.

Fess up.

 

[preacher4truth]

Retract the statement that calls it unbiblical for someone to claim that faith has nothing to do with salvation? I don't think so. It would be unchristian to allow such a statement to go without correction. Even you acknowledge now that grace is "accessed through faith," so why don't you simply retract your unbiblical statement?

I'll pass on retracting that I believe faith does not save us. In addition, my comments are taken out of context by you and I've since thoroughly explained that Grace saves, not faith.

No retraction coming from me.

- Peace

 

[Skandelon]

I'll pass on retracting that I believe faith does not save us.

But you said faith has NOTHING to do with your salvation. How can that be when salvation requires faith?

No retraction coming from me.

- Peace

So you still affirm that faith has nothing to do with salvation???

 

[Winman]

Nope. I have no idea who you are referring to. So, I only quote the part I am interested in.

Enlighten me to whom you speak that I fear.

No need to start your personal attacks here. Simmer down and tell me who you think I am in fear of, this "fear of man" accusation you lay on me.

Fess up.

Anyone who tells you that if you obey Jesus's many commands to come to him, call on him, ask of him, look unto him, open the door to him, take of him, receive of him...

Anyone who teaches you that obeying the commands of Jesus is SAVING YOURSELF.

 

[preacher4truth]

Anyone who tells you that if you obey Jesus's many commands to come to him, call on him, ask of him, look unto him, open the door to him, take of him, receive of him...

Anyone who teaches you that obeying the commands of Jesus is SAVING YOURSELF.

Well, you brought that into this, not me.

No one ever taught me what you're saying. You completely miss me with your statements, and are only assuming, and this has nothing to do with the OP.

Who is it I fear Winman?

 

[preacher4truth]

But you said faith has NOTHING to do with your salvation. How can that be when salvation requires faith?


So you still affirm that faith has nothing to do with salvation???

I know it's hard to explain. Simply accept that it is the Grace part that saves.

 

[Skandelon]

. Simply accept that it is the Grace part that saves.

So was Jesus mistaken when he said, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." ???

Or were the apostles wrong when the people asked, "How can we be saved?" and they replied saying, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." ???

Should they both have said, "Grace as saved you, go in peace," and "Grace will save you, you and your household." ???