Thinkingstuff
Active Member
EdSutton said:
I'll try to get back to you on that. Maybe I was mistaken about Hebrews but I'll define what I'm speaking of better as I actually spend time looking for what I'm thinking about.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Amillennialism
- Thread starter Amy.G
- Start date
- Status
I'll try to get back to you on that. Maybe I was mistaken about Hebrews but I'll define what I'm speaking of better as I actually spend time looking for what I'm thinking about.
If satan is bound and chained now, don't you think perhaps his chain is a little too long? The world; mostly unknowingly, is being run by satan right now, it belongs to Christ and Christ will take His promised kingdom back; but for now satan is running it, so don't think he can do that being bound and chained right?
I believe we are in the dispensation of Grace, at the end of the dispensation of Grace, the church is raptured, leaving two types of people on earth, Jews and gentiles period. No Christians, they are raptured along with the dead in Christ first, which means those that are dead but are Christians, we go to meet Him in the air. That is why the tribulation is called "Jacob's Trouble". For 7 years the tribulation will last, 3 1/2 years will be a false peace, as the a/c makes a peace treaty with nation Israel, then after 3 1/2 years, he will break the peace treaty. You will have 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel witnessing to whom Christ was and is. That would make the number 144,000. You will also have two witnesses that will bring down hail and fire and people differ as to if these two people are Moses and Elijah or Moses and Enoch. the a/c will eventually be given the power to kill the two witnesses that will lay in the street for 3 days and 3 nights, for all the world to see, then they will arise and go to be with Him, right in front of everyone. Now, the rapture is an occurence that only the saved will really be aware of, we are the ones that will hear our names called, no unsaved person will hear a thing, the second advent is at the end of the 7 year tribulation, and everyone will see it and hear it. Matter of fact people will be praying for rocks to land on them, for they know it's over for them. Those that make it through the tribulation, (nation Israel has been protected where God has led them supernaturally), will go through the millennium, that's a 1,000 years of Christ ruling with a rod of iron. Satan is bound for that 1,000 years; but will be loosed at the end of it. Why? I think it is to show mankind that he shouldn't blame satan for everything he did wrong, and to show that mankind is continually evil of course, as there are some that will join satan to try and overthrow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That isn't possible of course and they are all destroyed. Then is the beginning. As God will judge the unsaved at the Great White Throne judgment. The saved have already made it through the Judgment Seat of Christ, where they receive rewards or the absence of them. There will be tears in heaven when the saved see the ones they loved that were unsaved go to the place where they could have not gone; but chose to go, after that, all tears will be wiped away and memories will be erased.
YSIC
Joyce
I believe we are in the dispensation of Grace, at the end of the dispensation of Grace, the church is raptured, leaving two types of people on earth, Jews and gentiles period. No Christians, they are raptured along with the dead in Christ first, which means those that are dead but are Christians, we go to meet Him in the air. That is why the tribulation is called "Jacob's Trouble". For 7 years the tribulation will last, 3 1/2 years will be a false peace, as the a/c makes a peace treaty with nation Israel, then after 3 1/2 years, he will break the peace treaty. You will have 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel witnessing to whom Christ was and is. That would make the number 144,000. You will also have two witnesses that will bring down hail and fire and people differ as to if these two people are Moses and Elijah or Moses and Enoch. the a/c will eventually be given the power to kill the two witnesses that will lay in the street for 3 days and 3 nights, for all the world to see, then they will arise and go to be with Him, right in front of everyone. Now, the rapture is an occurence that only the saved will really be aware of, we are the ones that will hear our names called, no unsaved person will hear a thing, the second advent is at the end of the 7 year tribulation, and everyone will see it and hear it. Matter of fact people will be praying for rocks to land on them, for they know it's over for them. Those that make it through the tribulation, (nation Israel has been protected where God has led them supernaturally), will go through the millennium, that's a 1,000 years of Christ ruling with a rod of iron. Satan is bound for that 1,000 years; but will be loosed at the end of it. Why? I think it is to show mankind that he shouldn't blame satan for everything he did wrong, and to show that mankind is continually evil of course, as there are some that will join satan to try and overthrow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That isn't possible of course and they are all destroyed. Then is the beginning. As God will judge the unsaved at the Great White Throne judgment. The saved have already made it through the Judgment Seat of Christ, where they receive rewards or the absence of them. There will be tears in heaven when the saved see the ones they loved that were unsaved go to the place where they could have not gone; but chose to go, after that, all tears will be wiped away and memories will be erased.
YSIC
Joyce
If Satan is not bound, how can Christ rule on His throne at the right hand of God, and how can this be a period of grace?
Satan is not omniscient and omnipresent. His binding is relative to his power to dissuade humankind and not a chaining such as a prisoner in leg irons...it is a type of speech rather than a physical binding.
The notion of a rapture, the imagination of dispenstionalists, suggests a double second coming of Christ, which is taught nowhere in scripture. There is but one coming.
Cheers,
Jim
Satan is not omniscient and omnipresent. His binding is relative to his power to dissuade humankind and not a chaining such as a prisoner in leg irons...it is a type of speech rather than a physical binding.
The notion of a rapture, the imagination of dispenstionalists, suggests a double second coming of Christ, which is taught nowhere in scripture. There is but one coming.
Cheers,
Jim
)
Jim, Christ rules a SPIRITUAL kingdom now. He rules only those who believe on Him.Jim1999 said:
There is coming a day that the earth and His enemies will be His "footstool." That is, He will rule the earth.
If you have read the account in Gen 3:15 about the "enmity" and the "seeds," you will notice that Satan's seed would "BRUISE" His heel. Think about it -- Satan's seed, Judas, betrayed Christ and took His "foot" off the "footstool" when He came at the first advent!
Similarly, when Christ comes again, He will "bruise Satan's seed's head." How is that? "Satan's seed," Judas once again, will indwell AC and become king over this world. But when Christ returns, he will cast Satan into the pit "bruising" his kingdom for 1000 years.
Marcia
Active Member
Jim1999 said:
Do you think Satan is not deceiving anyone anymore?
Satan has always been limited (see Job) even before the crucifixion. And this is not about Satan being omniscient and omnipresent - I don't think anyone is saying that he is.
Christ is ruling in heaven but there is no godly rule on earth right now (Note: I am not saying Christ is not in charge - but God does allow Satan to roam and deceive). If there were, we would not have so much increasing paganism and apostasy in the church.
And wouldn't this mean the warnings against Satan in the NT are to be ignored?
Do a little more homework. You will readily admit that there is an OT and a NT. Again, do your homework on dispensationalism (I'll will gladly help if you like).
Yeppers, just be sure to use simple Henglish cos I ain't got no edumication in all my 81 years.
Cheers,
Jim
Yeppers, just be sure to use simple Henglish cos I ain't got no edumication in all my 81 years.
Cheers,
Jim
Lukasaurus
Member
I imagine this is how amillennialists read their Bible
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years (can't be true),
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years Neither can thisshould be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Hmmm, that doesn't really mean that
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years Not truewere finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. I don't think so!
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years NOT!are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years (can't be true),
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years Neither can thisshould be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Hmmm, that doesn't really mean that
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years Not truewere finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. I don't think so!
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years NOT!are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
"Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."Marcia said:
Who are "the nations"? It's the gentiles. Satan is bound (restricted) from deceiving the gentiles "till the times of the gentile be fulfilled". And when did gentiles turn to Christ? The early first century.
It doesn't mean Satan is restricted from deceiving the unbelieving world, but he is restricted from deceiving the believing church. And what is the Church primarily made up of - Jews or gentiles? Gentiles, of course. Think about it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Like I said earlier on, satan is not chained right now, if he is he has a short chain, and all the proof that is needed for that is to open up any daily newspaper and see what is going on around us. He will be chained up for the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ. Then at the end of that 1,000 years will be loosed and then he will have others that jump in behind him, wanting to overthrow Jesus Christ. Of course, the good guys always win though. As when he does this God destroys him and the ones that became traitors.
This world will be ruled by the true King one day; He will sit on David's throne literally, and rule from there, literally, for 1,000 years. I believe we need to take the Word literally unless to do so would make the Word of God not make sense. A lot of people back in the 20's probably didn't take it literally that Israel would be the focal point of the world; yet, look Her now right? Wasn't that literal? I know people might think I'm nuts here also; but, I believe Ezekiel 38 is literal also, I believe that Russia will lead an attack and she will do it on horseback with bows and arrows, I also believe she has the capabilities to knock out any batteries that tanks, airplanes and such need to operate to do this and with the terrain over there, it could be done just as the Bible states.
YSIC
Joyce
This world will be ruled by the true King one day; He will sit on David's throne literally, and rule from there, literally, for 1,000 years. I believe we need to take the Word literally unless to do so would make the Word of God not make sense. A lot of people back in the 20's probably didn't take it literally that Israel would be the focal point of the world; yet, look Her now right? Wasn't that literal? I know people might think I'm nuts here also; but, I believe Ezekiel 38 is literal also, I believe that Russia will lead an attack and she will do it on horseback with bows and arrows, I also believe she has the capabilities to knock out any batteries that tanks, airplanes and such need to operate to do this and with the terrain over there, it could be done just as the Bible states.
YSIC
Joyce
joyce said:
I like your post, Joyce-----makes perfect sense
Concerning the invasion of Russia upon Israel--------with the use of bow and arrow and on horseback(as you mentioned in post above) and on foot---as opposed to an invasion accompanied by modern day equipment---a la---tanks, armoured vehicles, aeroplanes, etc---All one has to do is study recent military---as in WW2---to find the vast majority of Russia's troop and equiptment movement against the Germans was brought about by horse drawn vehicles---------the Germans had Panzers----but no fuel to feed the hungry engines------read history to find out how many times it will tell you-----you don't have fuel for your tank-----you might as well get out of it and throw dust at the opposing side attacking with a spear against you---------then read today's newspaper and figure out--that it doesn't take all that much to disrupt fuel supplies across an entire nation---a la Hurricane Gustav and Ike----and a la 2005's Hurricane Katrina and Rita
blackbird said:
nice. except the Bible doesn't say anything about God using the weather and drying up natural resources so Israel's enemies will have to use bows and arrows and ride on horse-drawn chariots.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Yeah, I can't believe the number of people who hold to the rolling end time point of view. I like Tim Lehay series but I also like Narnia, and LOTR, and even Greek mythology. But I put them all in the same catagory. Fantasy. Daniels prophesy was fulfilled by the 1st advent and the subsequent destruction of the temple in AD 70. Many of the thoughts about antichrist can be seen in the emperors of the time Nero and Calligula. Christ will come again. Christianity is the fulfillment of the prophesies. Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Meaning that the Church is to take on his kingdom on earth as a forerunner for us of the heavenly one. Why else would he teach us to pray: "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? Looking for the Anti Christ and the rapture is a waste of time. expecting the ressurection and the 2nd FULL advent of Jesus is more worth while.
This is a good question that I wonder about as well.Thinkingstuff said:
Also, what about this?
2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
Who or what is being restrained? Could this be Satan, who is bound for the 1000 years?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Amil, just trying to understand.
Marcia
Active Member
J.D. said:
But many believe the nations are unbelievers.
And Satan isn't deceiving the believing church?? There is so much deception in the church today, how can that be? And I think Satan is behind much of it because I believe Satan is behind all false teachings:
Word of faith teachings
The NAR/Five-Fold movement
New Age-Christian syncretization
Some of the Emerging Church beliefs
- Status