Amy Barrett Confirmation Hearings Thread

[Quantrill]

The same impression.

Many errors have been made by well meaning Christians, sometimes resulting in otherwise moral men justifying racism and slavery as God instituted because they cannot grasp the relation of God's dealing with Israel as compared to the world or the Church.

But no, God did not institute racism, hatred, or slavery. That is not to say God did not ordain slavery in history (God ordained, for example, that Jacob be sold into slavery).

But no - slavery, racism, hatred, murder, adultery....God has used these things but He does not institute them.

It is ignorant to believe slavery did not exist prior to Israel as we know better (and you should know better). The same principle is explained in Scripture regarding divorce.

It is wrong to justify sin, or sinful attitudes. But it is natural and I suspect something over which we will wrestle throughout this life.

The error is yours. You like so many others have bought into the PC view that slavery is evil. Thus God must not in anyway endorse slavery. Thus you must deny Scripture when it plainly states that God instituted slavery. You must not allow Scripture to change your PC impression. After all, you are a good person and could never endorse slavery or hate. You are a perfect representative of why the Church has helped to fuel these so called 'hate crimes' in America.

You say God did not institute slavery. Yet it was God speaking in (Lev. 25:45-46). See (Lev. 25:1-2). "And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel...." This is God giving the Law to Israel. He didn't have to include slavery. Just because man murders didn't make God institute murder. Just because man commits adultry didn't make God institute adultry. God could just have easily said, Thou shalt not own man as slaves.

If slavery is not sin, then how am I justifying sin or sinful attitudes. If slavery is of God, how are you not calling God evil, and sinful for instituting slavery.

If slavery is evil and sinful, then God is sinful and evil for redeeming you. Buying you as a slave. That is slavery, correct? Redemption speaks to paying the price, correct? How evil of God to treat you as a slave. Didn't He know you had rights? You didn't need to be bought back. Yet Scripture says differently here. (1 Cor. 6:20) "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God...."

Of course I'm sure you see God as buying us back and then releasing us from slavery. Here you go child of God, you are free and independent because God loves independence and the rights of man. Not so. (Rom. 6:18) "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom. 6:22) "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God...."

God did not issue any 'emancipation proclamation'. You have him confused with Lincoln, as does the rest of the U.S. No, the believer doesn't gain independence. He changes masters. (Rom. 1:1) "Paul, a servant (slave) of Jesus Christ...." Parenthesis mine.

What of your impression now? Make no mistake, I know it will be the same, but I love a good dog and pony show. I sense it's about time to lock this thread out.

Quantrill

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Regarding the confirmation hearing. It is of my opinion that the purpose of the hearing is to determine if whether or not ACB is qualified to set on the Supreme Court. It is obvious that Democrats are not questioning her qualifications, but rather how she "Might" rule on a specific case when she sets on the bench.

The Dems are not using it solely that way, but the confirmation hearing is presumably to establish her credentials both professionally and personally. Along with numerous other items on their agenda, the Dems have questioned both, not just how she might rule specifically.

Even without enduring listening to the entire exercise, it is clear that they resort to all manner of innuendo and surrogate accusation and setup in attempting to call into question her suitability for the Court. Not nearly everything they do is done during the sessions.

 

[JonC]

The error is yours. You like so many others have bought into the PC view that slavery is evil. Thus God must not in anyway endorse slavery. Thus you must deny Scripture when it plainly states that God instituted slavery. You must not allow Scripture to change your PC impression. After all, you are a good person and could never endorse slavery or hate. You are a perfect representative of why the Church has helped to fuel these so called 'hate crimes' in America.

You say God did not institute slavery. Yet it was God speaking in (Lev. 25:45-46). See (Lev. 25:1-2). "And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel...." This is God giving the Law to Israel. He didn't have to include slavery. Just because man murders didn't make God institute murder. Just because man commits adultry didn't make God institute adultry. God could just have easily said, Thou shalt not own man as slaves.

If slavery is not sin, then how am I justifying sin or sinful attitudes. If slavery is of God, how are you not calling God evil, and sinful for instituting slavery.

If slavery is evil and sinful, then God is sinful and evil for redeeming you. Buying you as a slave. That is slavery, correct? Redemption speaks to paying the price, correct? How evil of God to treat you as a slave. Didn't He know you had rights? You didn't need to be bought back. Yet Scripture says differently here. (1 Cor. 6:20) "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God...."

Of course I'm sure you see God as buying us back and then releasing us from slavery. Here you go child of God, you are free and independent because God loves independence and the rights of man. Not so. (Rom. 6:18) "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom. 6:22) "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God...."

God did not issue any 'emancipation proclamation'. You have him confused with Lincoln, as does the rest of the U.S. No, the believer doesn't gain independence. He changes masters. (Rom. 1:1) "Paul, a servant (slave) of Jesus Christ...." Parenthesis mine.

What of your impression now? Make no mistake, I know it will be the same, but I love a good dog and pony show. I sense it's about time to lock this thread out.

Quantrill

My impression is the same. You are wrong and espouse an unbiblical view by insisting that slavery (as observed in American history) was instituted by God.

My concern is that type of ignorance was used by Christians like George Whitfield and racist organizations like the KKK to support slavery. It is a corrupt and biblically illiterate method of viewing Scripture and obscures the message of Christ to the world.

 

[Wingman68]

My impression is the same. You are wrong and espouse an unbiblical view by insisting that slavery (as observed in American history) was instituted by God.

My concern is that type of ignorance was used by Christians like George Whitfield and racist organizations like the KKK to support slavery. It is a corrupt and biblically illiterate method of viewing Scripture and obscures the message of Christ to the world.

The message of Christ was not obscured from the slaves. They were joyous in Christ, even in shackles. You appear to be making the case for the current direction of the SBC.

 

[JonC]

The message of Christ was not obscured from the slaves. They were joyous in Christ, even in shackles. You appear to be making the case for the current direction of the SBC.

I do not know too much what the current SBC holds. I do believe that God uses everything to work out for His own glory - slavery, racism, the early persecution of the Church, the martyrdom of the saints, etc.

But if you are suggesting that God instituted the persecution of the Church, that God instituted slavery, that God instituted racism, etc. then I do find that suggestion the opposite of Christianity and counter to the nature of God as He has revealed Himself to man in Scripture and in the person of Christ.

If the SBC is saying that slavery in America was morally wrong in opposition to others saying it was right, then I do side with the SBC (which is odd as I often denounce their venture into secular political correctness).

 

[Quantrill]

My impression is the same. You are wrong and espouse an unbiblical view by insisting that slavery (as observed in American history) was instituted by God.

My concern is that type of ignorance was used by Christians like George Whitfield and racist organizations like the KKK to support slavery. It is a corrupt and biblically illiterate method of viewing Scripture and obscures the message of Christ to the world.

No, your concern is God instituted slavery. And you addressed nothing I said, cause you have nothing to say.

Were you bought and paid for or not? Are you a slave to God or not?

You have nothing to show God is against slavery other than your man pleasin PC view. Looks good in front of men.

Quantrill

 

[JonC]

No, your concern is God instituted slavery. And you addressed nothing I said, cause you have nothing to say.

Were you bought and paid for or not? Are you a slave to God or not?

You have nothing to show God is against slavery other than your man pleasin PC view. Looks good in front of men.

Quantrill

No, you are trying to wiggle out the argument.

I have been bought with a price and am a "slave" to God. But you are wrong to attribute this as the same as slavery in America. I was not unwillingly purchased, unwillingly enslaved by God. Whatever people believe, Christians do not believe that men are saved "against their will" (even Calvinists do not believe this...they may say against their former will, as did Spurgeon), but Christ did not enslave men when He died upon the Cross.

The problem is that you see any rejection of racism as bowing to political correctness. I suspect I know the reason, but will not voice it here because I also suspect your posts bear out what I suspect and others see it as well.

Since you believe that God instituted the practice of slavery as practiced in America, do you believe that abolishing slavery in our nation was an act against God?

Since you believe that speaking negatively against slavery and racism in America is "political correctness", are you saying that you are "pro-racism" and "pro-slavery"? Do you apply this consistently (are you also "pro-murder", "pro-abortion", "pro-Christian persecution")?

The reason this is so important to us today is the racism you advocate is the reason many are able to get away with this "political correctness" that you false attribute to my posts. Saying American slavery is wrong is Christian, it is not "pc". It was wrong. Saying racism is wrong is Christian, it is not "pc".

Defending racism and the institution of slavery in US history is, however, defending evil. It makes Christians question your heart - but more than that it makes non-Christians question Christianity. How can one advocate evil, as you are doing, and be a "light" to the world? My answer is they cannot.

 

[Quantrill]

No, you are trying to wiggle out the argument.

I have been bought with a price and am a "slave" to God. But you are wrong to attribute this as the same as slavery in America. I was not unwillingly purchased, unwillingly enslaved by God. Whatever people believe, Christians do not believe that men are saved "against their will" (even Calvinists do not believe this...they may say against their former will, as did Spurgeon), but Christ did not enslave men when He died upon the Cross.

The problem is that you see any rejection of racism as bowing to political correctness. I suspect I know the reason, but will not voice it here because I also suspect your posts bear out what I suspect and others see it as well.

Since you believe that God instituted the practice of slavery as practiced in America, do you believe that abolishing slavery in our nation was an act against God?

Since you believe that speaking negatively against slavery and racism in America is "political correctness", are you saying that you are "pro-racism" and "pro-slavery"? Do you apply this consistently (are you also "pro-murder", "pro-abortion", "pro-Christian persecution")?

The reason this is so important to us today is the racism you advocate is the reason many are able to get away with this "political correctness" that you false attribute to my posts. Saying American slavery is wrong is Christian, it is not "pc". It was wrong. Saying racism is wrong is Christian, it is not "pc".

Defending racism and the institution of slavery in US history is, however, defending evil. It makes Christians question your heart - but more than that it makes non-Christians question Christianity. How can one advocate evil, as you are doing, and be a "light" to the world? My answer is they cannot.

Yes, you are a slave to God. Everyman is a slave to either God or the world and satan. Slavery describes man period. Independence describes what fallen man wants to be.

I showed you in (Lev. 25:45-46) that God instituted slavery. It was a right institution. It was not evil as God instituted it. Did those people who were slaves like it? Probably not. Did that make God evil. No. What makes it evil? Man does. Man cries it is evil because man is so good. Yes, that is the politically correct view which you espouse.

I have never said a people have to have slavery involved in their country. I am saying slavery is not evil, it is of God. As far as the abolitionists in America during the War Between the States, they were wrong in attributing slavery as evil. Wrong in attributing evil to the Southernor or anyone who owned slaves, just because they owned slaves.

Those good 'abolitionists' were also Christ deniers in that day. Oh, they would tell you they believed in God and Christ, but that was after they stripped Him of His Deity. They loved the social Jesus. The good man Jesus. This is why they replaced Christ with John Brown. They replaced the Cross with the gallows. Just makes you want to sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic, doesn't it? Political correctness. These are who you identify with.

If Christians question my heart, that is up to them. If non-christians question Christianity, that is up to them. I do not change what the Bible says to pander to their feelings. I've seen more antagonism against Christianity from non-christians due to Christians trying to explain away God's view of race and slavery when the Bible says otherwise. More antagonism due to Christians trying to be Christian and politically correct.

Yes, I defend race and slavery as not evil because they are of God. You attribute that as evil. Not me. He Who is the Light of the World never spoke against slavery. He Who is the Light of the World became a Slave forever in taking on a human body. See and ponder these verses. (Ps. 40:6), (Heb. 10:7-9), (1 Cor. 15:28) KJV

Quantrill

 

[Salty]

This thread is closed while admins decide on proper action

DO NOT start a thread on slavery

A thread on the SCOTUS nominee is fine as long as it does not get into slaver.

 

[JonC]

Yes, you are a slave to God. Everyman is a slave to either God or the world and satan. Slavery describes man period. Independence describes what fallen man wants to be.

I showed you in (Lev. 25:45-46) that God instituted slavery. It was a right institution. It was not evil as God instituted it. Did those people who were slaves like it? Probably not. Did that make God evil. No. What makes it evil? Man does. Man cries it is evil because man is so good. Yes, that is the politically correct view which you espouse.

I have never said a people have to have slavery involved in their country. I am saying slavery is not evil, it is of God. As far as the abolitionists in America during the War Between the States, they were wrong in attributing slavery as evil. Wrong in attributing evil to the Southernor or anyone who owned slaves, just because they owned slaves.

Those good 'abolitionists' were also Christ deniers in that day. Oh, they would tell you they believed in God and Christ, but that was after they stripped Him of His Deity. They loved the social Jesus. The good man Jesus. This is why they replaced Christ with John Brown. They replaced the Cross with the gallows. Just makes you want to sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic, doesn't it? Political correctness. These are who you identify with.

If Christians question my heart, that is up to them. If non-christians question Christianity, that is up to them. I do not change what the Bible says to pander to their feelings. I've seen more antagonism against Christianity from non-christians due to Christians trying to explain away God's view of race and slavery when the Bible says otherwise. More antagonism due to Christians trying to be Christian and politically correct.

Yes, I defend race and slavery as not evil because they are of God. You attribute that as evil. Not me. He Who is the Light of the World never spoke against slavery. He Who is the Light of the World became a Slave forever in taking on a human body. See and ponder these verses. (Ps. 40:6), (Heb. 10:7-9), (1 Cor. 15:28) KJV

Quantrill

Your argument fails because ANE slavery existed prior to the Law. God did not institute slavery. God did not institute murder. God did not institute racism. God did not institute war. God did not institute abortion. God did not institute divorce.

You are simply wrong and are justifying racism as a gift from God. I think your own ....leanings....may be affecting your understanding of Scripture.