An answer to the sinless day

[Dale-c]

How about one day a few months back when our church was in revival. The message from the night before was so good that I was sharing it with on the phone practically all day with family and friends sharing the Word of God.

Short answer is that I do not believe you.

At least Bap Believer is only saying it is possible, not that he has done it.

I don't suppose you were ever proud during those "sinless" time were you?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Short answer is that I do not believe you.

Wow... that's pretty harsh.

At least Bap Believer is only saying it is possible, not that he has done it.

I've said that I'm not sure if I have gone 24 hours, but I have gone for at least several hours when I was deeply involved in ministry work.

I don't suppose you were ever proud during those "sinless" time were you?

I can't speak for him, but pride was the last thing on my mind. I was concerned with the needs of others and following the leading of God.

Let's go back to the real issue. Did Jesus teach that it was possible to have victory over sin and live in a way that pleased God. Did He ask us to "go sin no more" (or was that only for that one woman caught in adultery)?

If Jesus taught that it is possible, then you have no basis to condemn other who report that the words of Jesus are faithful.

 

[npetreley]

I've said that I'm not sure if I have gone 24 hours, but I have gone for at least several hours when I was deeply involved in ministry work.

Are you sure? Not even the least sin of omission? There was nothing you could have done that you didn't do?

I can't speak for him, but pride was the last thing on my mind. I was concerned with the needs of others and following the leading of God.

Are you sure? Are you 100% certain that 100% of your motivation was selfless? Is it even remotely possible that a fraction of a percent had to do with self-gratification or pride? Being human and not God, can you say with 100% certainty that there wasn't even the tiniest element of "being proud of being humble" in there?

I get the point of the power in Christ, but I'm amazed that anyone would be so certain they were sinless for any period of time whatsoever. I don't know 100% of my motivation for doing anything at any given time, so I would never be so arrogant as to claim I know it is purely out of the right passion, loving God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. Sorry, but I simply can't make a statement like that. I'm not qualified. Only God knows my heart through and through, which is why the psalmist asks God to search his heart.

 

[Dale-c]

If Jesus taught that it is possible, then you have no basis to condemn other who report that the words of Jesus are faithful.

So, Jesus said a 24 hour period of sinless perfection was possible?
Also, I mean MORAL perfection, I don't care if you spilled your coffee during that time.

[HBSMN]...kept asking where it says that it cant be done (24 hours) I say, where does it say that we can.

Also, as I think most here realize, this is about much more than simply how long we can go without committing certain acts. It is a fundamental belief of who we are and who God is and our relation to Him.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Are you sure? Not even the least sin of omission? There was nothing you could have done that you didn't do?

That's a strange way to look at things. I was being led by the Spirit... why should I do things the Spirit did not lead me to do? To do so would be sin. As I pointed out before, even Jesus did not heal everyone or "fix" everyone's problem. Why do we think we have to do everything? Let the Master assign your work to you, don't assume you have to do everything.

Are you sure? Are you 100% certain that 100% of your motivation was selfless? Is it even remotely possible that a fraction of a percent had to do with self-gratification or pride? Being human and not God, can you say with 100% certainty that there wasn't even the tiniest element of "being proud of being humble" in there?

I realize that these questions are posed to make me look incredibly arrogant and in denial if I disagree with your point of view... However, when you are led by the Spirit, you don't think in terms of self-promotion or pride. Certainly there is great pleasure ("gratification") and a sense of accomplishment ("pride?") in working with God to help people and set them free, but it doesn't fall under the category of sin.

Why won't anyone answer the question regarding what Jesus taught about the subject? If things are as you say, why can't anyone show me scripture that says a believer, walking in the power of the Spirit, is actually caught in sin?

I get the point of the power in Christ, but I'm amazed that anyone would be so certain they were sinless for any period of time whatsoever.

Certain? Well, when I am ministering in the Spirit, I don't have time for endless self-analysis. I don't worry about doing wrong, I concern myself with doing right. And frankly, once you busy yourself doing the work of God, you'll notice that you don't have as much time for or inclination toward sin. Doing the work of God is transformative in nature.

I don't know 100% of my motivation for doing anything at any given time...

So why do you obsess about it if you can't figure it out! Why don't you get busy being a disciple (one who learns by doing alongside) of Jesus?

...so I would never be so arrogant as to claim I know it is purely out of the right passion, loving God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. Sorry, but I simply can't make a statement like that.

There seems to be a lot of "humility" around here that is actually rooted in false teaching. Does the New Testament teach that we can be victorious over sin or not?

I'm not qualified. Only God knows my heart through and through, which is why the psalmist asks God to search his heart.

You're right, you're not qualified. Neither am I. So why are you searching your heart for sin that may or may not be there? Let God be God! Stop obsessing about potential sin in your life and get to following Jesus. Let the Spirit convict you of sin, not guilt feelings put onto you by other believers who are not interested in helping you become like Christ.

 

[npetreley]

That's a strange way to look at things. I was being led by the Spirit... why should I do things the Spirit did not lead me to do?

How do you know everything you were doing was because you were being led by the Spirit? How do you know the Spirit wasn't trying to lead you to do one other thing, or one more thing, but you weren't listening?

You don't know. Claim that you do all you want. God will correct you.

 

[J.D.]

I see from this thread that some folks have a theology that does not exclude boasting. Shame, shame!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ok, new question for Baptist Believer and H...BS...whatever your name is and any other of yor that claim 24 hours of sinlessness is a possibility:

When was the last time you went 24 hours without sin?
ANd of course if you can do 24 surely it must get easier with time and you have done 48 and 72 hours etc.

Come on, if you can, then you have! When was the last time?
Was it yesterday? Did you sin yesterday?

Hmmm.....

Offensive attack on my brother, His Blood Spoke My Name. Just because Dale does not believe Christ is able to keep one from sinning for any length of time does not give him right to attack as he has... nor anyone else!

 

[J. Jump]

Just curious as to why 24-hours is the magical time period here. When's the last time anyone went a week wthout sinning? How about a month, six-months, a year? Are these time frames equally as possible? By some accounts they should be.

 

[Dale-c]

When did I say that God was unable to keep someone from sinning?
This is not a denial of God's power but an admission to our own depravity.
Sin dwells in us. With Christ, we are no longer a slave to sin, we can live victorious and yet we will always have the battle until we go to heaven.
With Christ, we are guranteed that we will win the war with sin. We are already assured of victory. Victory will not be complete in this mortal life.

 

[Dale-c]

Just curious as to why 24-hours is the magical time period here. When's the last time anyone went a week wthout sinning? How about a month, six-months, a year? Are these time frames equally as possible? By some accounts they should be.

Yeah, for that matter, with what some are sying here, why can't they go sinless the rest of their lives after they are saved?

Why not? Are they denying God's power?

 

[mcdirector]

This is an interesting read on sinlessness (odd looking word isn't it?)

http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/sinless.html

It deals with John Wesley and Finney and some charasmatic theology. Yesterday I came across a really good transcript of a sermon, but didn't bookmark it. Now I can't locate it! *sigh*

This link is from the Boston Christian Resources group. I don't know anything about them. BUT they aren't the only ones to tell about John Wesley and his belief in a sinless state, PCA (a site I do read) also has a page about this very topic http://www.mbrem.com/life/dab-wesl.htm .

 

[Dr. Bob]

Please be careful with calling each other names (or initials) and turning a theological discussion into a mud pit.

BTW, I was under the impression this was a BAPTIST only area. The false doctrine of sinless perfection is a hallmark of Wesleyan Theology. In 42 years of college/seminary/full time ministry I have never heard a Baptist espouse such nonsense.

No name calling, but feel free to lambast Wesleyan doctrine any time! :wavey:

 

[saturneptune]

Please be careful with calling each other names (or initials) and turning a theological discussion into a mud pit.

BTW, I was under the impression this was a BAPTIST only area. The false doctrine of sinless perfection is a hallmark of Wesleyan Theology. In 42 years of college/seminary/full time ministry I have never heard a Baptist espouse such nonsense.

No name calling, but feel free to lambast Wesleyan doctrine any time! :wavey:

Thank you.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Please be careful with calling each other names (or initials) and turning a theological discussion into a mud pit.

BTW, I was under the impression this was a BAPTIST only area. The false doctrine of sinless perfection is a hallmark of Wesleyan Theology. In 42 years of college/seminary/full time ministry I have never heard a Baptist espouse such nonsense.

No name calling, but feel free to lambast Wesleyan doctrine any time! :wavey:

You have always been a great blessing to this board, Doc.

 

[npetreley]

This is an interesting read on sinlessness (odd looking word isn't it?)

http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/sinless.html

It deals with John Wesley and Finney and some charasmatic theology. Yesterday I came across a really good transcript of a sermon, but didn't bookmark it. Now I can't locate it! *sigh*

This link is from the Boston Christian Resources group. I don't know anything about them. BUT they aren't the only ones to tell about John Wesley and his belief in a sinless state, PCA (a site I do read) also has a page about this very topic http://www.mbrem.com/life/dab-wesl.htm .

Interesting stuff! A lot of this is new to me, so thanks for the links. The second link reads just like the threads.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Please be careful with calling each other names (or initials) and turning a theological discussion into a mud pit.

BTW, I was under the impression this was a BAPTIST only area. The false doctrine of sinless perfection is a hallmark of Wesleyan Theology. In 42 years of college/seminary/full time ministry I have never heard a Baptist espouse such nonsense.

No name calling, but feel free to lambast Wesleyan doctrine any time! :wavey:

Not sure if the Baptist Only remark was toward me, but my pastor will tell you we are Baptist. My wife will tell you the same.

My mother may grumble when she tells you I am baptist, as she is not... she is Pentecostal down to the last wagging tongue and getting up off of the floor.

 

[Dale-c]

Please be careful with calling each other names (or initials) and turning a theological discussion into a mud pit.

That actually was accidental, though I must admit that i did notice it later and did not change it, for which I apologize.
I kept getting the initials mixed up..but enough of that, my apologies.

 

[npetreley]

My mother may grumble when she tells you I am baptist, as she is not... she is Pentecostal down to the last wagging tongue and getting up off of the floor.

Does that explain the Wesleyan influence?

 

[mcdirector]

Interesting stuff! A lot of this is new to me, so thanks for the links. The second link reads just like the threads.

I thought so. I didn't know anything about this area of Wesleyan theology. It has certainly surprised me!

AND I did notice the similarity in that second link. :tongue3: