An answer to the sinless day

[Baptist Believer]

Reading through these posts, I am both shocked and saddened at the remarks coming from some of the posters.

Same here.

The message is not sinless perfection, else His Blood would have clearly stated that you can get to the point where you never sin. He did not say that.

I absolutely agree. That's why I'm baffled by the accusation that that's what we are professing.

Looking past your post, I see that others are actually arguing over issues and accusations from previous threads (of which I have not read) instead of actually dealing with the points and issues made here. That's no way to conduct a discussion!

If the message cannot be refuted with Scripture, then there must not be any wrong in the message.

It sure looks that way.

One certainly has the power to walk in victory over sin if one has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him or her. That does not necessarily mean that one will always do the will of the Father. We still have our sin nature, it has not been done away with.

Amen and amen!

 

[npetreley]

If I myself, were looking for a Christ who was different than the Christ of the Word of God, I would not recognize Him when He returned.

I won't argue with that in principle. The problem is with the basis for claiming that people are looking for the wrong Christ. Some are making the unsupportable claim that anyone who believes Christ ever drank anything but grape juice is looking for the wrong Christ. I have the opposite view - that Jesus did, in fact, drink wine. But I would never (seriously) claim that people who think He only drank grape juice is looking for the wrong Christ and is therefore unsaved. That's just plain silly.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I won't argue with that in principle. The problem is with the basis for claiming that people are looking for the wrong Christ. Some are making the unsupportable claim that anyone who believes Christ ever drank anything but grape juice is looking for the wrong Christ. I have the opposite view - that Jesus did, in fact, drink wine. But I would never (seriously) claim that people who think He only drank grape juice is looking for the wrong Christ and is therefore unsaved. That's just plain silly.

Christ drank, but the Word of God does not say that Christ drank wine. The closest the Word of God comes to saying that Christ drank wine is when He tasted the vinegar that was in the sponge while He was on the cross.

Christ did say in Mark that He would no longer drink of the fruit of the vine with His disciples until He drank it new in the Kingdom. But again, that does not say wine. Grape Juice was around for centuries before Welches came about. Do you think the grapes prior to Welches were dry and had no juice in them?


In places where wine is mentioned in the Bible, one needs to look at context, not in the view of modern day wines, but in the context of surrounding Scripture.

If one does this, one will see wine had various meanings throughout the Bible. It was either alcoholic, or it was not.

 

[npetreley]

Christ drank, but the Word of God does not say that Christ drank wine...[etc...]

So, if I disagree with you (and I do), then am I unsaved?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Only you and God know for sure whether you are saved or not, but according to the Word of God, some who think they are saved are truly not saved.

Paul wrote in Galatians

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8-9

One preaches Christ drank alcohol, one does not. One surely must be preaching another Christ.

That word 'accursed' is the Greek word 'anathema'. It means 'a person devoted to God who has no hope of being redeemed. A person doomed to destruction'

Interesting that Paul says that one who brings another gospel, even though they think they are serving the right Christ, they are devoted to God... and yet, they are doomed to destruction with no hope whatsoever of being redeemed.

Jesus said in John 5 that we are to search the Scriptures for they testify of Him.

We must know Christ when He returns, not the Christ of another gospel.

Pauls warning in Galatians 1 and Christ's warning in Matthew 7 where He states 'I never knew you' to those who professed they were devoted to God, should challenge each of our hearts to know Christ in His fulness.

 

[npetreley]

One preaches Christ drank alcohol, one does not. One surely must be preaching another Christ.

How does one's interpretation of the content of "wine" have anything to do with the gospel?

Here's the problem. You're basically saying that if you're right, the I'm unsaved. Whether or not you realize this, you're also saying that if I'm right, then you're unsaved. Either way, you grape-juice folks are the ones who are insinuating or saying plainly that those of us who disagree with you are unsaved. So you are incorrect to claim that HBwhatever & company haven't made such allegations. In fact, you're making them, too. You're dancing around the issue to make it seem like you're not saying it plainly, but it's obvious that's your opinion.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

How does one's interpretation of the content of "wine" have anything to do with the gospel?

Here's the problem. You're basically saying that if you're right, the I'm unsaved. Whether or not you realize this, you're also saying that if I'm right, then you're unsaved. Either way, you grape-juice folks are the ones who are insinuating or saying plainly that those of us who disagree with you are unsaved. So you are incorrect to claim that HBwhatever & company haven't made such allegations. In fact, you're making them, too. You're dancing around the issue to make it seem like you're not saying it plainly, but it's obvious that's your opinion.

I am also saying that if you are right, then it is I who is serving the wrong Christ and preaching 'another gospel'.

Christ is coming back for a Church that is looking for Him. Not for a Church that is looking for another Christ.

 

[npetreley]

I am also saying that if you are right, then it is I who is serving the wrong Christ and preaching 'another gospel'.

That's what I said. I don't think grape juice/wine has anything whatsoever to do with the Gospel, outside of my personal belief that grape-juice drinker are using the wrong "wine" for communion. However, since Welch started producing grape juice without yeast, thanks to pasteurization, I can't say you're dishonoring Christ with grape juice, since it is free of the symbol of corruption.

Well (raising my glass), cheers. I happen to believe we'll both recognize Christ, and see Him together. Maybe we won't, but I won't lay that charge against you. Why?

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

[Linda64]

So if a day is possible, why not a year?

Why are you so obsessed with sinlessness and focusing on sin? Why do you keep on attacking anyone who desires a closer walk with the Lord and states that he or she can be victorious over sin by walking in the Spirit? This is NOT sinless perfectionism--this is Christian living. Living a Christian life is impossible without Christ living His life through us.

Sinlessness is not measured in periods of time. Our sin nature has not been eradicated (this is what the "sinless perfectionists" teach) and we will never reach sinless perfection in this lifetime. However, during this lifetime every believer is ABLE to live in victory as they YIELD to the Holy Spirit and RELY on His power. Stop focusing on sin and focus on Christ and who you are in Him--otherwise you will be living a defeated life.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25)

It doesn't end there.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4)

Walking in the Spirit is the key!

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (Galatians 5:16-18)

Spiritual growth is not the same for every Christian. Some grow faster than others, and some remain "babes" all their Christian life.

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: (1 Peter 2:2)

Do you want to grow, or do you want to focus on sin and remain "babes"?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

That's what I said. I don't think grape juice/wine has anything whatsoever to do with the Gospel, outside of my personal belief that grape-juice drinker are using the wrong "wine" for communion. However, since Welch started producing grape juice without yeast, thanks to pasteurization, I can't say you're dishonoring Christ with grape juice, since it is free of the symbol of corruption.

Well (raising my glass), cheers. I happen to believe we'll both recognize Christ, and see Him together. Maybe we won't, but I won't lay that charge against you. Why?

If one claims that Christ drank an alcoholic beverage, the claim is contrary to the very nature of Christ. Why would Christ drink that which is called by His Father 'the poison of dragons'? Why would He drink that which 'at the last biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder'? Why would He tell His Children to drink the same?

I still do not see any Scriptural reference to prove that He did. Only arguments that He did.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

There seems to be an agenda here that is taking the topic of the thread to another topic. I encourage others who want to argue wine to open another wine thread.

This is about whether a person can go without sinning for 24 hours or not.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You didn't start the thread, nor are you a moderator.

Well (raising my glass), cheers. I happen to believe we'll both recognize Christ, and see Him together. Maybe we won't, but I won't lay that charge against you. Why?


Quote:
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

This is the best post on this thread. No judgement, no self righteousness, just plain biblical truth.

I also think that the sheperd will leave the 90 and 9 if one is lost.

 

[npetreley]

If one claims that Christ drank an alcoholic beverage, the claim is contrary to the very nature of Christ. Why would Christ drink that which is called by His Father 'the poison of dragons'? Why would He drink that which 'at the last biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder'? Why would He tell His Children to drink the same?

I still do not see any Scriptural reference to prove that He did. Only arguments that He did.

And I do not see anywhere in the Gospel that you must believe Jesus drank grape juice in order to be saved. So if anyone is preaching another gospel, it is the grape-juice sect.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You didn't start the thread, nor are you a moderator.

Regardless whether is is a moderator or not, he is right. This thread is not about wine... it is about a period of time.

This is the best post on this thread. No judgement, no self righteousness, just plain biblical truth.

I also think that the sheperd will leave the 90 and 9 if one is lost.

The best posts on the thread are the ones that point one to the Christ of the Bible.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

And I do not see anywhere in the Gospel that you must believe Jesus drank grape juice in order to be saved. So if anyone is preaching another gospel, it is the grape-juice sect.

No, the Bible says to believe on Jesus Christ. If you are believing on a Jesus who did something contrary to the very nature of Jesus Christ, are you believing on the right Jesus?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I also think that the sheperd will leave the 90 and 9 if one is lost.

If you read the story of the 90 and 9, you will find that the shepherd did not go looking for a sheep that was not his, but for a sheep of his that had wandered.

Not everyone who says they are of Christ is of Christ.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Christ will go into the bar and pull the drunkard out.(edited to add....I should have said, "his disobediant child. Sorry)

Christ will not allow his children to live in sin without being chastised for it. I have plenty of scars from fighting the Holy Spirit to prove it. And all the tears I shed & the spiritual battles I had to surrender to in my sactification process (which is FAR from over, BTW) would have been meaningless if I fought them in vain.

Like the lack of authority some have on this board, they have no authority to say who is saved, and who is not. Jesus knows his children, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't wishper in anyone's ear who is saved and who is not.

Salvation is grace, not works. I didn't stop drinking & drugging in order to be saved. I was saved, and the behavior was literally beaten out of me, and it sure didn't happen immediately.

Please do not doubt your salvation because you slip. We are adopted by God, and he will not unadopt us. We are to pray, & listen. Do not go out of the way to sin, the devil may win a few battles here & there, but the war over my soul is won.

Praise The Lord for salvation through the shed blood of his perfect son.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Jesus knows his children

Yes, He does. He also knows who are going to look for Christ in places that He is not in. He knows and warns of people pointing to a differrent Christ other than He.

Jesus does know His Children, and when His Children correctly use the Word of God, they can know who is of Christ and who is not.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:20

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I am a child of God, saved by his son. No legalistic heresy will change that.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

If one is a Child of God nothing can ever change that. But if one is only devoted to God and bringing another gospel, one is not truly a Child of God.

Curtis, you said earlier to standingfirminChrist:

You didn't start the thread, nor are you a moderator.

By the same token, neither are you. What gives you the right to tell standingfirm he is wrong for saying the thread should get back on topic? What gives you the right to change the topic since you did not start the thread and are not yourself a moderator?

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Let's get back to the topic of this thread.