-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
An Apostate
- Thread starter Judith
- Start date
Judith... God is both gracious & merciful. The goodthief on the cross...remember him?
Thank you for the response. I am not trying to be snippy here, but that was not my question. There is nothimg in scripture to suggest that the thief on the cross was an apostate.
Last edited by a moderator:
Old Union Brother
New Member
I think you will find your answer in James chapter 4.
convicted1
Guest
First off, I don't believe anyone who has been truly saved, will ever become an apostate. Cold at times? Yes. Apostate? No.
I look at it like this. Under the Law, they had to make animal sacrifices. Now, after that sacrifice was completed, the next time they made a another animal sacrifice, they had to bring back other animals, and not use the dead animals they had used before. When God saved us, we sacrificed ourselves to God. If we were truly born again/born from above/saved, and then went back into sin, what is there left for us to sacrifice? The only thing we had to offer God was ourself, and that was "used up" when He saved us.
IMO, if anyone believes in a true fall from grace, backslide, apostate, then they believe in someone who is doomed for doing such.
I look at it like this. Under the Law, they had to make animal sacrifices. Now, after that sacrifice was completed, the next time they made a another animal sacrifice, they had to bring back other animals, and not use the dead animals they had used before. When God saved us, we sacrificed ourselves to God. If we were truly born again/born from above/saved, and then went back into sin, what is there left for us to sacrifice? The only thing we had to offer God was ourself, and that was "used up" when He saved us.
IMO, if anyone believes in a true fall from grace, backslide, apostate, then they believe in someone who is doomed for doing such.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Not meaning to be either snide or snippy either...
The Bible does, sort of, say he was an apostate. After all, he was a Jewish thief...
The Archangel
My apologies.I assumed everyone understood what a biblical apostate was. Here is a link that describes what it is and who they are. Then back to the question.
http://www.biblicalreader.com/btr/Apostasy.htm
http://www.biblicalreader.com/btr/Apostasy.htm
convicted1
Guest
There's not enough devils to snatch even one of God's children from His hands. If the devil can't snatch us from His grasp, how could any of us fall away?
Can they be saved? Yes.
Do they often get saved? I don't know.
The parable of the sower (2nd and 3rd sets of seeds) teach that people may hear the word and even be interested and investigate it, but can sometimes not actually become saved for the reasons stated in the parable.
Of the 5000 people who were miraculously fed by Jesus and some of them even calling themselves disciples - some eventually turned away when His teaching because too deep. (John 6 - end of chapter)
But ALL things can be forgiven - even those who think they are followers (but aren't saved) who "fall away". I like to hope that many of those who left Jesus that day in John 6 because they were thinking about literally bread and He was talking about Living Bread were possibly saved later after His resurrection.
Many of the Pharisees were saved (Acts 15). Why not some apostates, then?
Do they often get saved? I don't know.
The parable of the sower (2nd and 3rd sets of seeds) teach that people may hear the word and even be interested and investigate it, but can sometimes not actually become saved for the reasons stated in the parable.
Of the 5000 people who were miraculously fed by Jesus and some of them even calling themselves disciples - some eventually turned away when His teaching because too deep. (John 6 - end of chapter)
But ALL things can be forgiven - even those who think they are followers (but aren't saved) who "fall away". I like to hope that many of those who left Jesus that day in John 6 because they were thinking about literally bread and He was talking about Living Bread were possibly saved later after His resurrection.
Many of the Pharisees were saved (Acts 15). Why not some apostates, then?
Last edited:
Judith, in light of Hebrews 6:6 and 1 John 2:19, I seriously doubt it.
Herald, I agree.
Judith ;
Would you call Judas an apostate? There have been many who have turned their backs on their church, doctrine, and religion. To be technical to be apostate seems to have little to do with our Salvation. You can be called apostate even if we turn our backs on our political party. It means treason. Peter was apostate when he was asked about Christ during His trial. He denied Him three times. Judas was apostate when he betrayed our Lord. Obviously Jesus forgave Peter so apostasy is not an unforgivable sin.
MB
Would you call Judas an apostate? There have been many who have turned their backs on their church, doctrine, and religion. To be technical to be apostate seems to have little to do with our Salvation. You can be called apostate even if we turn our backs on our political party. It means treason. Peter was apostate when he was asked about Christ during His trial. He denied Him three times. Judas was apostate when he betrayed our Lord. Obviously Jesus forgave Peter so apostasy is not an unforgivable sin.
MB
Last edited by a moderator:
Welcome to the problem that plagued the early church during the Donatist controversy. It could be argued that a person who repents and is restored was never a true apostate. Apostasy is difficult for us to pass final judgment on. It is similar to excommunicating a person from the church (Matthew 18 ). We are to consider those put out of the church as unbelievers since they have rejected the discipline of Christ. However, we are to receive them back if they repent. In practice, however, most who fit the description of Hebrews 6:6 and 1 John 2:19 are beyond repentance. They are like the man in the iron cage in Pilgrim's Progress.
Hello MB
I would refer you to the link I posted on page one for the answer to that.
http://www.biblicalreader.com/btr/Apostasy.htm
Curious.... why are you asking about this?
I was aked that question by someone else and I wanted to be sure that I answered them with a correct biblical answer. I posted the question in the Baptist Theology & Bible Study forum because I thought I would be more likely to get those who were pastors or had a reasonable amount of biblical training instead of people who were just guessing.
I can't help but see someone who abandons there faith completely and never comes back as one who was never saved in the first place. How others feel about Salvation I must assume is rather like myself. The reason I cling to Christ so desperately is because of my own weakness. I'm no where near to being perfect and I know it. With out Christ I'm nothing. I can only assume it's the same for everyone though that may not be the case. What ever happens to make a person abandon their Lord is a mystery to me. He is there for me in the worst of times. He is always with me. When I stray He comes after me and corrects me. Believe me His correction isn't pleasant.
Since we who are saved are His purchase why would the Lord let someone leave. He wouldn't let go of Peter or Jonah, because they belong to Him. It only makes sense to me that if they can really leave with out Christ going after them and bringing them back then they were never His in the first place.
MB
Thomas Helwys
New Member
If a man still has a will to leave the faith he was never saved. I submitted my will by surrender. But you claim a man can rise up in another rebellion. I can't believe that at all. You see when we hold back from the Lord we are not sincere. With God an accord is unbreakable. I may go astray but I will always belong to Him. He will always correct me. I will always accept His correction.
MB