An example of practical Calvinism

[Aaron]

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

 

[webdog]

Good point...:laugh::laugh:

These men had that kind of god....
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

So P4T violates BB rules and not only do you think its a good point, but join in mocking his 'god'?

You people are something else.

 

[preacher4truth]

God doesn't learn. He's omniscient.

Any god that has things occur to him isn't YHWH. Period.

 

[Mexdeaf]

The Calvinist slanders deny that all means all if the verse says God desires all men to be saved, yet they take the opposite position and declare all means all when God is all knowing. It appears they all went to the NWT school of hermeneutics.

The closed theism God of Calvinism is the author of sin because God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, including sin. To dodge this, they claim irrationally, God is not the author of sin, but just how is a mystery. LOL

Folks, all they have is shuck and jive. God's word says things happen by chance, but Calvinism says chance does not mean chance. ROFLOL

It boggles the mind how anyone starting with a full deck, aka the Bible, could throw out so many cards, God loves the world gone, God desires all men to be saved gone, God sets before us the choice of life and death gone and so forth and so on.

God have mercy. That's the best thing I can say about this post.

 

[preacher4truth]

God have mercy. That's the best thing I can say about this post.

When a person takes away omniscience the end result is a caricature of the God of Scripture.

Job understood full well that God permits and allows evil, even claiming that he received such at the hand of the Lord...and in all this Job did not sin with his lips.

 

[Van]

Shuck and jive, evasion and personal attacks, on and on it goes folks, the gang slanders on.

Post #61, all does not mean everything imaginable. True.
Post #63, all means everything imaginable. False
Post #64, says nothing, but attempts to bury the truth with innuendo.
Post #65, suggests the truth denies omniscience. False and slanderous.

Calvinism requires presenting irrational doctrine in code so its absurdity is cloaked. God's word, God desires all men to be saved; Calvinism says God desires some men to be saved. God's word, Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all; Calvinism says Christ laid down His life as a ransom for some. On and on it goes folks, LOL

 

[Mexdeaf]

Shuck and jive, evasion and personal attacks, on and on it goes folks, the gang slanders on.

Post #61, all does not mean everything imaginable. True.
Post #63, all means everything imaginable. False
Post #64, says nothing, but attempts to bury the truth with innuendo.
Post #65, suggests the truth denies omniscience. False and slanderous.

Calvinism requires presenting irrational doctrine in code so its absurdity is cloaked. God's word, God desires all men to be saved; Calvinism says God desires some men to be saved. God's word, Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all; Calvinism says Christ laid down His life as a ransom for some. On and on it goes folks, LOL

The "slander" is in your own mind. No one has slandered you here.

 

[preacher4truth]

Calvinism must rewrite scripture, redefining all men, meaning all mankind, to mean all kinds of men, or in other words, not all men. This is the sort of rewrite that creates mistaken doctrine.

How about God is all knowing, meaning God knows all kinds of things but does not know all things. This behavior by Calvinists to use one rule here, and a different rule there is just like the JW's and their NWT.

Folks, Calvinism has been shown over and over to be mistaken doctrine, and all the Calvinists do is rewrite verse after verse to pour there irrational doctrine into the text. LOL

You talk of slander but can't see this as slander?

 

[preacher4truth]

The Calvinist slanders <sic> deny that all means all if the verse says God desires all men to be saved, yet they take the opposite position and declare all means all when God is all knowing. It appears they all went to the NWT school of hermeneutics.

The closed theism God of Calvinism is the author of sin because God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, including sin. To dodge this, they claim irrationally, God is not the author of sin, but just how is a mystery. LOL

Folks, all they have is shuck and jive. God's word says things happen by chance, but Calvinism says chance does not mean chance. ROFLOL

It boggles the mind how anyone starting with a full deck, aka the Bible, could throw out so many cards, God loves the world gone, God desires all men to be saved gone, God sets before us the choice of life and death gone and so forth and so on.

What about this as well?

The Calvinist believes God in all things and trusts Him in all things, even as Job did when handed evil in his life...and saw such as received from God Himself, and you call all this slander?

We see and trust God in all things Biblically, and as God knowing all things at all times. You see God as one who 'learns'. Yet we are slandering? Nothing is further from the truth.

To take omniscience from God is in the least slanderous and is drawing a caricature of the God of Scripture.

You need to learn a basic principle, 'all' does not always mean each and every person.

 

[Yeshua1]

Shuck and jive, evasion and personal attacks, on and on it goes folks, the gang slanders on.

Post #61, all does not mean everything imaginable. True.
Post #63, all means everything imaginable. False
Post #64, says nothing, but attempts to bury the truth with innuendo.
Post #65, suggests the truth denies omniscience. False and slanderous.

Calvinism requires presenting irrational doctrine in code so its absurdity is cloaked. God's word, God desires all men to be saved; Calvinism says God desires some men to be saved. God's word, Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all; Calvinism says Christ laid down His life as a ransom for some. On and on it goes folks, LOL

Does God learn anything new van, or is he already all knowing, nothing to ever learn?

Does God base salvation upon Cross, or upon our faith in Him?

Does God credit us for our faith, or does he credit us based upon the Grace of the Cross?

is the desire of God same as his will?

 

[Van]

Hi Yeshua1, I have answered all those questions. Why are you repeating them? Explain how scripture does not mean what it says.

All your questions are calculated to change the subject. Otherwise, you would address how I have answered all those questions before. God's word, God desires all men be saved; Calvinism says God desires some men to be saved. How did you get from all to some? Why not answer questions rather than just ask?

God's word says "now I know;" Calvinism says "I always knew". How did you get from now to always? Why not answer questions rather than just ask.

God's word, God chose you for salvation through faith in the truth; Calvinism says God chose you for salvation through no faith in the truth. How did you get from faith to no faith? Why not answer questions rather than just ask.

Folks, Calvinism reverses what scripture says over and over, and then Calvinists slander anyone who simply quotes scripture.

Does all mean all of the grouping in view, or everything imaginable? All in the grouping in view. To say all in the grouping here, but everything imaginable there is to use the NWT hermeneutics. Thus I was not slandering but presenting truth. I was not addressing the behavior of the opposing posters but the silly doctrine they propound.

No, saying Calvinism must rewrite scripture by providing the evidence for the rewrites is not slander. God says God desires all men to be saved, and Calvinism rewrites it to say God desires some men to be saved. God says Jesus laid down His life as a ransom for all; Calvinism says Jesus laid down His life as a ransom for some. These are rewrites. And there are dozens more. No one seeks God becomes no one seeks God at any time. Words and phrases are inserted, definitions revised, i.e. chance does not mean chance, choice means non-choice, and so forth.

 

[Van]

Folks, if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then God is the author of sin. Ask the Calvinists why this is not obvious to each and every one of them. Only Hyper-Calvinists will answer your question directly with "yes God is the author of sin." You will get shuck and jive from the main-line Calvinists.

 

[preacher4truth]

God ordained the evil that befell Job. He also ordained the evil that came upon Christ, Paul, and all other believers who trust in Him. This does not make Him the 'author' of sin.

 

[Van]

God ordained the evil that befell Job. He also ordained the evil that came upon Christ, Paul, and all other believers who trust in Him. This does not make Him the 'author' of sin.

As I expected, shuck and jive. Here is the denial God is the author of sin, yet no explanation as to why not if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass. As I said, only the Hyper Calvinists will give a direct answer.

 

[Mexdeaf]

As I expected, shuck and jive. Here is the denial God is the author of sin, yet no explanation as to why not if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass. As I said, only the Hyper Calvinists will give a direct answer.

You're so predictable. When someone answers you, it is always either "slander", "shuck and jive", or "evasion". That's why most of us don't bother.

I think you're only interested in tearing down what others believe, and not only on the subject of C/A. That's not an "attack", that's the facts, Jack!

 

[Van]

You're so predictable. When someone answers you, it is always either "slander", "shuck and jive", or "evasion". That's why most of us don't bother.

I think you're only interested in tearing down what others believe, and not only on the subject of C/A. That's not an "attack", that's the facts, Jack!

Yet another personal attack, as if I was not slandered. Mostly it is the Calvinists who disparage me, because they cannot defend the doctrines of the TULI.

I asked this question, if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then why is not God the author of sin. It is a simple question. But the response is shuck and jive, evasion and personal attack rather than a biblically based answer.

I am interesting in tearing down mistaken doctrine. But if my views are mistaken, and we all know sometimes they are, I am interested in learning what the right view is.

 

[Yeshua1]

Folks, if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then God is the author of sin. Ask the Calvinists why this is not obvious to each and every one of them. Only Hyper-Calvinists will answer your question directly with "yes God is the author of sin." You will get shuck and jive from the main-line Calvinists.

problem is that we MUST take it by faith that God is fully Soveregn, and yet he does not author sin, nor the Fall!

Think when we take youe position inregards to all of this, will get like Job, in the sense that we think we have it all figured out, yet God reveals to usjust howignornat we ALL still are!

 

[Van]

No answer, why take what is folly on faith. Scripture please. God is fully sovereign, but sovereigns allow people to make choices.

If God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then God is the author of sin. Calvinism embraces the first part and denies the second. No need to take irrationality on faith, when the Bible teaches that God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass.

We could go through the list of absurdities advocated by Calvinism again, but not one Calvinist would admit they are unbiblical. We would get, its poetry, its a parable, it does not mean what it says, and on and on, making scripture to no effect.

God desires all men be saved.

Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all.

Jesus became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world.

For God so loved the world.

God sets before us the choice of life and death, not life only for some and death only for the rest.

God chose you for salvation through faith in the truth.

 

[Winman]

problem is that we MUST take it by faith that God is fully Soveregn, and yet he does not author sin, nor the Fall!

Translation- You must throw your brain in the trash and accept contradictions as truth.

Think when we take youe position inregards to all of this, will get like Job, in the sense that we think we have it all figured out, yet God reveals to usjust howignornat we ALL still are!

Well, some are more "howignornat" than others. These folks have no difficulty believing contradictions are true.

Rational people have great difficulty believing contradictions can be true.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Yet another personal attack, as if I was not slandered. Mostly it is the Calvinists who disparage me, because they cannot defend the doctrines of the TULI.

I asked this question, if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then why is not God the author of sin. It is a simple question. But the response is shuck and jive, evasion and personal attack rather than a biblically based answer.

I am interesting in tearing down mistaken doctrine. But if my views are mistaken, and we all know sometimes they are, I am interested in learning what the right view is.

The right view has been explained to you BIBLICALLY several times on several different threads as I recall, but you always call it "shuck and jive".