Ananais and Sapphira...lost?

Not at all. And that brings us back to the two subjects in the OP. They were saved and sinned unto death, and there are going to be some suprised BBers when they see those two on the other side :thumbsup:

 

So have I but they were not preaching with the Holy Spirit.

2 Corth; 11

"13": For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

"14": And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

"15": Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

As I have preached for almost 35 years, make it as sure as you can. Also, His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. I have seen them preach, commit adultery and never quit until they were forced out.


J. Jump

If they are there it will be alright with me, who am I that would judge another man's servant. According to the scripture there will be no liars there.

 

Bob you are just like some others on this board. You think that just becuase you type in some section of a Scripture that it makes you right, but you can type that section of Scripture and you can highlight the last three words in red, purple, pink, yellow or whatever color you want to, but it does not say what you claim it says.

And you have the gaul to make a statement about me not be able to read :tongue3:

Let me give you the Brother Bob bible. which are in Christ Jesus, and we all walk not after the flesh, but we all walk after the Spirit.

Hmmmmm . . . is that what the verse says Brother Bob or do those added words just magically appear in the version you have?

The version I have does not say that.

Again let the text says what it says and quit trying to add your own words into the mix, becuase this section in the same chapter just blows holes all over your theory:

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

How do you get your "no Christian will walk after the flesh" bit to reconcile with Paul who says it is a real possibility? Why would Paul even bother to tell a group a Christians they would die if they walked after the flesh if that wasn't a possibility Bob?

 

Are you kidding, I preach the same thing all the time in our church. You see, we also have non-christians among us. That is where we get our members. You think Paul might of been trying to gain some members. I remember they baptized over 3000 one day.
You do err,

Use this one!

Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

 

That's the problem that I talked about earlier. For a great many folks their security is absolutely stripped away because they are constantly worried about whether their works are good enough and whether they have enough of them.

It puts people back in bondage. It's terribly sad. It doesn't allow folks to move forward.

 

Classic Bob answer. Someone asks a question and you totally dodge it.

Bob Paul was telling Christians that THEY Christians, born again believers just like you and me were capable of living in the flesh and if they did they were going to die.

Now Bob the question is why did Paul tell that to a group of believers if your no Christian can walk in the flesh belief is correct? That doesn't make one iota of sense Bob for Paul to say that to a group of believers if that wasn't a possibility.

By the way your Hebrews quote doesn't prove your point either. That verse in Hebrews isn't even speaking of spiritual salvation. But nice try.

 

No way you can prove they were all Christians there that day or any other. It is a known fact they followed the Christians for food and who knows what.

Tell me J. Jump; Why do you resent me so much? Also, I am sure that you are smart enough to know that among every gathering they had and we have there are unsaved among us. You do acknowledge that don't you?

 

Bob this wasn't a sermon Paul was delivering. It was a letter and he tells us EXACTLY who the letter was addressed to. It was addressed to beleivers. He was speaking ONLY to believers! That is just the simple facts of the matter.

An unsaved person can't understand about walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh anyway. That's a spiritual message and unsaved people are spiritually dead.

The ONLY message a spiritually dead person can understand is that Christ died according to the Scriptures as their substitute becuase of their sin. That's it! If they believe that Jesus died in their place and shed their blood to clense their sin then they are saved. Period. End of the Biblical discussion on spiritual salvation. It really is the SIMPLE Gospel message of salvation, not this complicated believe and then prove it with works, but who knows if its enough or the right kind.

Why pervert the simple message of believe and you will be saved (Acts 16:30-31)?

Brother Bob I don't resent you at all. I don't like it that you make things up about me that aren't true. But there are several others on this board that do the same thing, with no apology. But I don't resent you for it. I just wish you wouldn't do it.

And I do feel bad for the people that are under your teaching, because I think you are leading them astray in some areas. That breaks my heart. But I don't resent you for it. I'm not sure why you would think I resent you?

See this is actually why I like you Brother Bob. You call me stupid in one thread and then turn around and tell me how smart I am in the next Just a page back or so I was so stupid I couldn't read, but now I'm smart enough to know that there are unsaved folks in the church.

Yes Brother Bob I am very well aware there are unsaved folks in the church. I don't however think that when the church is being spoken of in Scripture it is speaking of the saved and unsaved that meet in a building. I think it is fairly clear that when the church is spoken of in Scripture it is speaking to believers that make up "the" church.

 

JJump, are you saying a saved person can loose their salvation? Is that where you are going?

 

As in saved, loose your salvation and then saved again?

 

Well, brother I have to disagree with you, not only on the basis of scripture but on the basis of my own experience as a believer.

2Pe 2:20
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The sins that I committed as a backslidden Christian were far worse than sins I committed before I got saved. It's all well and good for pharisees to beat their chests and thank the Lord they are not like other men, or even this publican, but sometimes I wonder what people ever did that they needed to be saved from in the first place, if they do not realize that they are in any danger of falling back into the vomit. It's not in vain that Paul warns he who thinks he stands to take heed lest he fall.

How strange to think that a man can labor for years under the assumption that he was forgiven on the basis of God's sacrifice only to find out that because he was tempted by a strange woman and led away by his lusts, that he was never really saved to begin with. Praise God he found out when he did, he could have gone to his grave thinking he was a Christian. I guess he can just get saved now and try again, but oh how awful that the 'fruit' he thought was evidence of his conversion the first time was just an illusion. How can he even think to trust whatever fruits he is able to bring forth from this time on? He is doomed to live his life in a miserable state of no assurance, because assurance based on a mans own works is nothing but a false assurance.

 

Ok, what is the difference between the two?

Isn't our faith our work?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

So, are you saying that you did backslide and fell from Grace? If that is what you are saying then you and I are on completely different ends of the spectrum. I am not even going to start quoting scripture against losing your Salvation for I am sure you already know what they are.

2 Corth; 11

"13": For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

"14": And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

"15": Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

As I have preached for almost 35 years, make it as sure as you can. Also, His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. I have seen them preach, commit adultery and never quit until they were forced out.

 

There is not two. There is Salvation and thats it.

 

The only falling from grace I see in scripture is this one.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Did I sin willfully? Yes, and Hebrews 10:26-31 was mine.

 

Then not only must you not sin, but you better get back in the boat.