Andy Stanley wants to "Unhitch" the O.T. from the N.T.

[Iconoclast]

So, you didn't listen to his sermon?

I listened to his speech

 

[Reynolds]

I listened to the whole sermon and all four wheels on his wagon fell off.

I heard no wheels fall off.

 

[Reynolds]

I listened to his speech

He is not a Calvinist, so its a given you will like very little he says.

 

[JonShaff]

Jesus often quoted from the OT, so it's impossible to "unhitch" the Testaments. When Jesus said "It is written", He was referring to the OT. The NT hadn't yet been written.

I'll go a step further and say Messianic prophecy is a must in Christianity is to be understood in all its fullness.

 

[Reformed]

I do not typically post articles and run but this article was shared today by Phil Johnson and it is germane to our discussion.

Marcion and Getting Unhitched from the Old Testament

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not want to move too far off of the OP, but your "battleground" comment is important. In fact, it is the equivalent in importance to the downgrade controversy in the latter second-half of 19th-century in England. The charismatic movement gave birth to the holy spirit movement (I am intentionally not capitalizing holy spirit in relation to the 'holy spirit movement'). In short, the holy spirit movement elevates personal experience over the authority of God's word. What makes this movement so dangerous is that the word of God is effectively abandoned in place of a subjective feeling. Few people are bold enough to challenge another person on whether their feeling is really the work of the Holy Spirit. When you look at many of the charlatans like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and Joyce Meyer; they all trace the impetus of their 'ministries' to the holy spirit movement. I do not place Andy Stanley in their category but I do have to raise the caution flag on his downgrade of the Old Testament. It is a dangerous precedent that other people will take to a further degree. Flawed teaching seldom ends with one teacher.

The fatal flaw in this viewpoint of Andy Stanley though is the very same OT he wants to throw out for us today, was still inspired by the Spirit, and was approved by Jesus Himself!

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe the problem is one of extremes. Insofar as Andy's comments, I just don't know. He sometimes says things in ways to spark more attention than his comments deserve and I'm not interested enough to review his actual sermon.

But there is a point where people become reactionary. Rather than looking at the Old Testament/Covenant as foreshadowing the New, some do seem to define the New Covenant by the Old Covenant. I believe it is in reaction to this error that some go too far by viewing the Old Testament/Old Covenant as obsolete, secondary, or disconnected from God's redemptive plan as a whole.

The NC would be the OC promises tous now being fulfilled in total with that NC. correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

The closest I have seen that is in Presbyterian ecclesiology. Presbyterians believe the New Covenant is a refreshed Old Covenant, not completely new. I am as Reformed-friendly as a Baptist can be and reject the Presbyterian view.

Yes, as that is the framework on which they base their infant water baptism upon!

 

[Yeshua1]

You have to keep him in full context.

Full context of what though, as per him, he plainly wants the Christian not to have anything to do with the OT now, as we just have to rely upon our Bible, the NT itself!

 

[Yeshua1]

So you think the new covenant is simply solidifying His covenant with His people? I am still confused...you think Adam has God's Law written on his heart--yet the New Covenant distinctly does this, Yet you think it's always been done according to Ezek. 11 and 36?

I'm not trying to be a jerk...I'm just not tracking you my friend.

Adam was created with a sinless nature, were we?

 

[John of Japan]

This is where Dispensationalism run amok takes some segments of Christianity. The bifurcation of Old Testament and New Testament is a dangerous thing. While Andy Stanley did not say the Old Testament is not inspired, he did downplay its importance and assigned it to the dusty part of the bookshelf.

Don't know what you mean by "Dispensationalism run amok." Properly understood, dispensationalism does not divorce the OT and NT, but carefully considers God's plan through the ages. As I tell my students, dispensationalism is partly a philosophy of history.

To quote Eugene Merrill, "The approach here, then, is diachronic, an approach that seeks to discover God's plan for history in the Old Testament Era, before the Christ appeared, and as it was progressively revealed by God and recorded in the sacred texts inspired by Him" ("God's Plan for History Prior to Christ, Ch. 5 in Dispensationalism and the History of Redemption, ed. by D. Jeffrey Bingham and Glenn R. Kreider, p. 123).

 

[Reynolds]

Full context of what though, as per him, he plainly wants the Christian not to have anything to do with the OT now, as we just have to rely upon our Bible, the NT itself!

That's not at all what he said. I really have not figured out why Andy is so hard for many to understand. He advocates milk for babies and meat for adults. He considers the O.T. meat.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's not at all what he said. I really have not figured out why Andy is so hard for many to understand. He advocates milk for babies and meat for adults. He considers the O.T. meat.

Interesting that his meat would be discarded away though!

 

[Reynolds]

Interesting that his meat would be discarded away though!

Where I video did he say "discard" the O.T?

 

[Yeshua1]

Where I video did he say "discard" the O.T?

Not be bound to it anymore

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's not at all what he said. I really have not figured out why Andy is so hard for many to understand. He advocates milk for babies and meat for adults. He considers the O.T. meat.

Spoiled milk and rotted meat.

 

[SovereignGrace]

He is not a Calvinist, so its a given you will like very little he says.

This is not a C vs A thing. I would lambaste any Calvinist if they did what Andy is repeatedly doing.

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's not at all what he said. I really have not figured out why Andy is so hard for many to understand. He advocates milk for babies and meat for adults. He considers the O.T. meat.

The reason why Andy Stanley is so hard to understand.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;[John 10:27]

He is speaking a language they can’t understand.

 

[Yeshua1]

The reason why Andy Stanley is so hard to understand.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;[John 10:27]

He is speaking a language they can’t understand.

Where is that "interpreter of tongues" when we need them?

 

[JonC]

It seems more probable that the 10 is commentary for the 2.

AMEN!