Angelic Conflict

[npetreley]

I think this (OP story) helps me understand the utter disdain that I find in the posts by "calvinistic" folks in opposition to the "free-willers". Because that angel story just sounds like a "Christianized version" of a Greek or Roman myth....a story started/passed down to explain the origin of man that REVOLVES AROUND MAN. Which is--of course-- completely wrong. Anything that puts MAN at the center of the universe or creation is contrary to the truth of a sovereign God complete and perfect in and of Himself.

Well, that's the problem with free-willism, isn't it? It's a man-centered doctrine, no matter how you slice it. Think of some of the things you hear from some free-willers:

1. It is God's sovereign decision to make man sovereign over the decision of his salvation.

2. God would never violate the free will of man, which is God's gift to man.

Statement #1 is a contradiction in terms, and #2 is just oozing with humanism. God forbid that God should interfere with our free will? :laugh: Like I said elsewhere, translation = "You ain't the boss of me, God!"

 

[psalms109:31]

Free-willer

The only free will choice to to continue to walk in unbelief. Then you can do what you want to.

To believe in Jesus is to go against our own free-will and choices.

We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[npetreley]

Faith is the number one reason for believing.

Never answer an anonymous letter.

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

I didn't really say everything I said.

You can observe a lot by watching.

 

[Amy.G]

Maybe Mr. Q will be along shortly to discuss the OP.

In the meantime, we will ponder NP's most wise and excellent advice. :laugh:



:type:

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

You can't have faith if you don't believe in it.

 

[npetreley]

It's deja vu all over again.

 

[Amy.G]

It's deja vu all over again.

:laugh:

There's some weird wiggy mojo floatin' around in that head of yours. :laugh:

 

[psalms109:31]

daja vu

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.


Is it daja vu or is is something really important to speak of.

 

[npetreley]

:laugh:

There's some weird wiggy mojo floatin' around in that head of yours. :laugh:

Most of them are Yogi Berra quotes.

 

[npetreley]

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.


Is it daja vu or is is something really important to speak of.

15 “However, you may slaughter and eat meat within all your gates, whatever your heart desires, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you; the unclean and the clean may eat of it, of the gazelle and the deer alike. 16 Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it on the earth like water. 17 You may not eat within your gates the tithe of your grain or your new wine or your oil, of the firstborn of your herd or your flock, of any of your offerings which you vow, of your freewill offerings, or of the heave offering of your hand.

Is the deja vu important to speak of, or of what importance is it that you speak?

(Hey I think I'm really getting the hang of this.)

 

[Amy.G]

Most of them are Yogi Berra quotes.

I know a Yogi Berra quote.

"Hey.. Boo Boo", that's a mighty fine picanic basket you got there".

Oh....that's Yogi BEAR. Sorry.

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

We know exactly why humanity was created. It says so Revelation 4:11 - ".....for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created."

I have always found this line of reasoning a bit odd. How many of you give folks some instructions but let them just start doing things and then right before time is up you give them their purpose?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Wouldn't it make more sense if our "purpose" was given to us at the beginning of the Book not at the end of the Book. I mean look at all those folks that lived for thousands of years that didn't know their purpose until John wrote it down in 90-plus AD.

 

[npetreley]

I have always found this line of reasoning a bit odd. How many of you give folks some instructions but let them just start doing things and then right before time is up you give them their purpose?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Wouldn't it make more sense if our "purpose" was given to us at the beginning of the Book not at the end of the Book. I mean look at all those folks that lived for thousands of years that didn't know their purpose until John wrote it down in 90-plus AD.

We knew the "why" long before Revelation was written. The OT is filled with verses that say God does everything for His own good pleasure. He has made all things for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

What is important is faith without it it is imposible to please God.

God is given you faith through the words of Jesus

You can walk away from it and reject the grace of God.

Because we are saved by grace through faith.

The doom that He prepared for the wicked, like us.

If any one claims they have no sin they are a liar and the truth isn't in them.

I praise God that He gave the world a way out like me and you through Jesus Christ.

 

[npetreley]

It is impossible to please God in the flesh.

Jesus came to be our savior.

Take comfort amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese.

Jesus is the Son of God, with whom the Father is well-pleased.

Hire people with hooks.

Anything done without faith is sin.

Do not eat meat with its mother's milk.

An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

In another thread, a poster mentioned the reason for God creating man in the first place was because of the "Angelic Conflict of eternity past".

I have never heard of this so I did a search and found this:

Too bad you didn't search your own REFORMED resources. Nevertheless I will post here what I post in the Garden thread.

Glad you asked about the “Angelic Conflict”. This is a teaching embraced by and taught most thoroughly by Donald Grey Barnhouse in his book, “The Invisible War” and a compliment to this study is a work by Merrill Unger, “Biblical Demonology”.

Donald Grey Barnhouse was a renowned theologian whose work is still received and edifying believers today. Barnhouse started the Evangelical Foundation in 1949 which today is called the “The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc. with the Alliance Council being made up of men such as Jerry Bridges, Sinclair Ferguson, John MacArthur, John Piper , R.C. Sproul and Albert Mohler to name a few.

Here is a bio of Barnhouse from the Alliance.

Barnhouse himself was Reformed in his theology, and Presbyterian in his denominational affiliation.

The Angelic Conflict or as Barnhouse called it, The Invisible War, covers in detail the direct, implied, deduced and theological conclusion regarding the teaching of the fall of Satan and its co-terminus ending with human history. I have imbedded links regarding Barnhouse and it is worth some time invested for discovery. He is a Reformed theologian received and praised by the men mentioned above. So as for his qualifications, they are not just that of a minister of the Word but one recognized by other leaders in Reformed theology.

 

[Amy.G]

Too bad you didn't search your own REFORMED resources. Nevertheless I will post here what I post in the Garden thread.

Glad you asked about the “Angelic Conflict”. This is a teaching embraced by and taught most thoroughly by Donald Grey Barnhouse in his book, “The Invisible War” and a compliment to this study is a work by Merrill Unger, “Biblical Demonology”.

Donald Grey Barnhouse was a renowned theologian whose work is still received and edifying believers today. Barnhouse started the Evangelical Foundation in 1949 which today is called the “The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc. with the Alliance Council being made up of men such as Jerry Bridges, Sinclair Ferguson, John MacArthur, John Piper , R.C. Sproul and Albert Mohler to name a few.

Here is a bio of Barnhouse from the Alliance.

Barnhouse himself was Reformed in his theology, and Presbyterian in his denominational affiliation.

The Angelic Conflict or as Barnhouse called it, The Invisible War, covers in detail the direct, implied, deduced and theological conclusion regarding the teaching of the fall of Satan and its co-terminus ending with human history. I have imbedded links regarding Barnhouse and it is worth some time invested for discovery. He is a Reformed theologian received and praised by the men mentioned above. So as for his qualifications, they are not just that of a minister of the Word but one recognized by other leaders in Reformed theology.

Alex, can you give us any Biblical support for your belief in the Angelic Conflict apart from your book selections?

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

Alex, can you give us any Biblical support for your belief in the Angelic Conflict apart from your book selections?

Well it appears going to the sources to read more exhaustively about the subject matter and Barnhouse is too taxing for you so with that in mind it appears taxing you with more detailed information isn't in your best interest.

In the mean time, if you ever get up to detailed reading...the sources...the REFORMED SOURCES, can and will provide extensive information too lengthy for message board posting but certainly satisfying to answer your questions.

However I do find it rather ironic that my very source for my beliefs on the subject matter come from a Reformed source who is widely celebrated by significant leaders in Calvinist and Reformed theology. Possibly even humorous.

 

[Amy.G]

Well it appears going to the sources to read more exhaustively about the subject matter and Barnhouse is too taxing for you so with that in mind it appears taxing you with more detailed information isn't in your best interest.

In the mean time, if you ever get up to detailed reading...the sources...the REFORMED SOURCES, can and will provide extensive information too lengthy for message board posting but certainly satisfying to answer your questions.

However I do find it rather ironic that my very source for my beliefs on the subject matter come from a Reformed source who is widely celebrated by significant leaders in Calvinist and Reformed theology. Possibly even humorous.

If I wanted to read your resources, there would be no reason for a discussion on this Discussion Board. I did check them out and they are of no use to this discussion/debate.

If someone asked my beliefs on the atonement, I would gladly share them (with scripture) instead of referring the readers to outside articles.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

If I wanted to read your resources, there would be no reason for a discussion on this Discussion Board. I did check them out and they are of no use to this discussion/debate.

If someone asked my beliefs on the atonement, I would gladly share them (with scripture) instead of referring the readers to outside articles.

Well Amy I provide a synopsis of the teaching in my first response. Brief but an opening. Obviously you ignored even those clues. I will give you it one more time and see if with one single detail you can form a follow-up question. This will let me know if based on a single detail you can respond with a related question, more pearls are a good investment. Here goes:

The Angelic Conflict or as Barnhouse called it, The Invisible War, covers in detail the direct, implied, deduced and theological conclusion regarding the teaching of the fall of Satan and its co-terminus ending with human history.