Angelic Conflict

[reformedbeliever]

If it wasn't for you those going against what God convinced me of in my youth that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and He made us the messenger. I wouldn't have never studied the scripture to find the truth.

The scripture still shows it and I want you to know.

I know I have weakness in communicating and it is easy to make fun of me, but I praise God for my weakness so His power will rest on me.

God bless you brother. I have a weakness in communication also. I thank God that His Holy Spirit has called you to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I too think that this thread has gotten carried away. I almost responded when I read someone basically beating a dear woman with his words. I do not care for abuse verbally or physically... especially on a woman.
I think its time for us all to take a deep breath.... and for me personally to stop biting my tongue. It hurts.

 

[Hopeful]

All due respect to everyone here, but aren't personal attacks against the rules of the forum? Not to mention very un-Christ-like? I understand that everyone is getting upset, but it seems to me that we should still follow Biblical practices, i.e. speak to the brother in private first, with two or three others next, and finally to the leadership, which in this case would be the board moderators.

Just so you know, I agree that some of Q's posts have been inappropriate as well. I have no problem with anyone having a large vocabulary...I have one myself. :laugh: I think it's because I've been reading everything I could get my hands on since I learned to read! Anyway, the problem comes in when that vocabulary is used in a blatant attempt to cover up the fact that the person really doesn't have an answer to the question being asked. What ever happened to admitting "I don't know" when you're stumped by something?

Q, I agree with a lot of your posts, although I will admit I'm at a loss with this one, but brother you need to get a handle on yourself. You're on a message board with a lot of people who may have a smaller vocabulary than you do. Even those who share your vocabulary are puzzled by some of your statements, myself included. State your point succinctly, and you will get a much better response. You honestly can't expect people to buy books to read on topics that you have introduced either...many of us do not have time for such things. For example, I am a busy wife, mother of four, and college student. I barely have time to read my textbooks every week! :BangHead: I don't want to see you (or anyone else) get banned because they got too personal. So, if you want us to understand what this is all about, try to explain it to us. Scripture references would be nice, also! :thumbs:

What an excellent appeal to Christian calm and decency! :thumbs:

 

[Hopeful]

God bless you brother. I have a weakness in communication also. I thank God that His Holy Spirit has called you to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I too think that this thread has gotten carried away. I almost responded when I read someone basically beating a dear woman with his words. I do not care for abuse verbally or physically... especially on a woman.
I think its time for us all to take a deep breath.... and for me personally to stop biting my tongue. It hurts.

Ditto (on this being an excellent call for Christian calm and decency)! :thumbs:

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

We knew the "why" long before Revelation was written. The OT is filled with verses that say God does everything for His own good pleasure. He has made all things for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Yet no one ever quotes the OT. Everyone I have ever discussed the purpose of man goes to this exact verse in Revelation.

Personally I think it shows a real lack of understanding as to what man's "real" purpose is in God's plan. But that's just me .

 

[reformedbeliever]

Yet no one ever quotes the OT. Everyone I have ever discussed the purpose of man goes to this exact verse in Revelation.

Personally I think it shows a real lack of understanding as to what man's "real" purpose is in God's plan. But that's just me .

Without having to go back through all this thread, in case you have already shared, would you mind sharing what you believe is man's real purpose in God's plan. If you have already shared it, you could maybe provide me with the thread. Thanks.

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

Without having to go back through all this thread, in case you have already shared, would you mind sharing what you believe is man's real purpose in God's plan. If you have already shared it, you could maybe provide me with the thread. Thanks.

Well I believe God was/is/always will be the Perfect Author of a book and so I would say the purpose of mankind can be found in the opening chapter of the Book.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Well I believe God was/is/always will be the Perfect Author of a book and so I would say the purpose of mankind can be found in the opening chapter of the Book.

In the opening chapter it simply says for man to subdue the earth and to multiply. I think that our worship of the Creator may have something to do with our purpose. I agree that He is the perfect author in the original autograph.

 

[npetreley]

If it wasn't for you those going against what God convinced me of in my youth that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and He made us the messenger. I wouldn't have never studied the scripture to find the truth.

The scripture still shows it and I want you to know.

I know I have weakness in communicating and it is easy to make fun of me, but I praise God for my weakness so His power will rest on me.

I've been teasing you a lot, but I do have some advice. Why not just talk to us like you're having a conversation? As it is, you post snippets of "words of wisdom" which, to many of us, don't even seem like they're related to the topic. Just write like you were sitting at the table with us talking. It would make it much easier to follow what you have to say.

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

I think that our worship of the Creator may have something to do with our purpose.

Did He ever relay this purpose to Adam and Eve? And then what is worship?

 

[webdog]

If it wasn't for you those going against what God convinced me of in my youth that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and He made us the messenger. I wouldn't have never studied the scripture to find the truth.

The scripture still shows it and I want you to know.

I know I have weakness in communicating and it is easy to make fun of me, but I praise God for my weakness so His power will rest on me.

I understand what you are saying perfectly. Some here would rather demean others than participate in meaningful discussion. If you are lucky, he will put you on ignore, too. The BB has been a LOT more bearable for me since he has. Don't let him tell you how to post, he's not the BB authority. I see him saying nothing to another poster of the same theological bent who posts in the exact same manner as yourself...but only numbers each line before it. I'm sick and tired of his cowardly bullying.

 

[russell55]

Yet no one ever quotes the OT. Everyone I have ever discussed the purpose of man goes to this exact verse in Revelation.

Personally I think it shows a real lack of understanding as to what man's "real" purpose is in God's plan. But that's just me .

If you believe in the unity of scripture—that there is one author, God, behind all the writings, and that it all forms a unified whole—then the point you've making doesn't hold much water.

But the idea found in that verse in Revelation is found throughout the Bible.

everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.” (Isaiah 43:7)

In this one, its the creation of human beings that is for the purpose of glorifying God.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:11-12)

In this one, it's redemption of human beings is for the purpose of glorifying Christ.

For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:36)

Everything comes from him, everything is sustained by his power, and intended for his glory.

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Our ultimate purpose, as human beings is to do everything we do to the glory of God.

And hints of that can be found in the Genesis account of creation. Adam and Eve were created in God's image. In other words, in some way, they reflected God's glory back to him.

 

[Amy.G]

I am sorry this thread turned into such a mess, but I would still like to invite Mr. Q to share his beliefs about creation of man being related to the angelic conflict, using scripture of course.

If he doesn't want to do that, fine. We will end the discussion here.


Mr. Q?

 

[russell55]

Oh, and I forgot this: That we are created to glorify God is not something that has to be spelled out to us through what is written, because that is something that we know through the witness of creation itself. Even those who have no written revelation at all are held accountable for not glorifying God because they can know they ought to be glorifying him through the witness of creation alone. "Did not honor God" is the univeral judgment on humankind:

For(AJ) the wrath of God(AK) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be(AL) known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature,(AM) have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they(AN) became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22(AO) Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and(AP) exchanged the glory of(AQ) the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.(Romans 1:18-23)

So that we don't find a command to glorify God in the first three chapters of Genesis doesn't mean that it wasn't communicated to Adam and Eve from the beginning of creation, for creation itself is a big sign that says, "Glorify God!"

 

[belvedere]

If you cannot defend your own beliefs by using scripture then your belief is not even worth consideration.

Exactly...and that is why his posts are so wordy, to try to distract us from the fact that he has no scripture to support his "ideas".

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

Brought to you by Scott Pakin's automatic complaint generator.

One thing I give you credit for, you consistently let someone else do your thinking. :laugh:

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

God bless you brother. I have a weakness in communication also. I thank God that His Holy Spirit has called you to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I too think that this thread has gotten carried away. I almost responded when I read someone basically beating a dear woman with his words. I do not care for abuse verbally or physically... especially on a woman.
I think its time for us all to take a deep breath.... and for me personally to stop biting my tongue. It hurts.

:laugh: As long as you Reformed / Calvinists groupies are ganging up on Q, hoping to provoke him, mock him, verbally abuse him and so on...you are not offended of course and silent in expressing outrage...but only when one of your own is taken to task you are offended. In the grown-up world it is called a DOUBLE STANDARD. When you have enough decency and self-respect to be offended by your own when they violate such standards, well then someone might take you with an ounce of seriousness.

In the mean time back to the topic.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

I am sorry this thread turned into such a mess, but I would still like to invite Mr. Q to share his beliefs about creation of man being related to the angelic conflict, using scripture of course.

If he doesn't want to do that, fine. We will end the discussion here.


Mr. Q?

Well Amy, out of one side of your mouth you say you are want to have me share my beliefs and out of the other side of your mouth you begin the OP with this:

In another thread, a poster mentioned the reason for God creating man in the first place was because of the "Angelic Conflict of eternity past".


What do you think?
I think this is nuts.

So which Amy will I get? The one that decided to rashly condemn what she hadn't studied in the first place only to discover this came from a Reformed source and a rather popular and well received theologian among them.

Or do I get the Amy reflected in this post?

You do see the conflict here, right?

 

[belvedere]

First, Mr Q repeatedly tells Amy to study the issue before approaching his highness with questions. So, she finds an article on the topic, posts it, tries to get his input, and he still plays dodge the question...

You do see the conflict here, right?

Oh, I certainly do.

 

[Amy.G]

So which Amy will I get? The one that decided to rashly condemn what she hadn't studied in the first place only to discover this came from a Reformed source and a rather popular and well received theologian among them.

Or do I get the Amy reflected in this post?

You get both. If you want to discuss it, fine. If not, that's fine too.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

You get both. If you want to discuss it, fine. If not, that's fine too.

Fortunately I am not the only source for studying the topic so with that you are blessed. However, since you have chosen on this topic to keep the disposition of double-mindedness, it will be act as a prohibiter for consistent dialogue in our case. So we'll just have to settle for debate and discussion in other threads on other topics.