Animism?

[Revmitchell]

Please explain what it was if it was not an apparition.

(You might want to first look up the definition of an apparition.)

You need to look it up

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Walpole, I, like others here, view the instances you cited as being substantive, supernatural yes, but substantive.

 

[Jerome]

You need to look it up

Walpole, I, like others here, view the instances you cited as being substantive, supernatural yes, but substantive.

apparition (n.)
"early 15c., 'supernatural appearance or manifestation,' from Anglo-French aparicion, Old French aparicion, aparoison (15c.), used in reference to the Epiphany (the revealing of the Christ child to the Wise Men), from Late Latin apparitionem (nominative apparitio) 'an appearance'"

 

[Revmitchell]

apparition (n.)
"early 15c., 'supernatural appearance or manifestation,' from Anglo-French aparicion, Old French aparicion, aparoison (15c.), used in reference to the Epiphany (the revealing of the Christ child to the Wise Men), from Late Latin apparitionem (nominative apparitio) 'an appearance'"

Of course you didnt post the whole thing. Jesus was no ghost. He is very real.

 

[Walpole]

Walpole, I, like others here, view the instances you cited as being substantive, supernatural yes, but substantive.

This is the first time I have seen someone invoke the Glomar response with regards to explaining what St. Stephen and St. Paul witnessed.

 

[Walpole]

You need to look it up

I looked it up and even quoted St. Luke’s account of each of the occurrences in a prior post.

If what they witnessed were not apparitions, what were they?

 

[Jerome]

Described as such even by Puritans :

The Puritan Library • Thomas Manton • Works vol 22 p. 72

"a glorious apparition...which if any will call a glimpse of the beatifical vision, there is nothing absurd in it; for it is said, 'His [Stephen's] face shone like an angel,’ Acts 6.15"

Monergism.com • Stephen Charnock • Discourses on God's Salvation of Sinners p. 39

"Paul's conversion, by a voice, as well as by sight, by instruction as well as apparition"

 

[Particular]

Let's talk animism.

The Roman Catholic Church has been especially effective at accommodating existing religious practices in its missionary endeavors. Around A.D. 600, Pope Gregory I writes that missionaries in England should use pagan temples and sacrificial rituals to “not deprive them of all exterior joys.” (Gregory I, Letter to Abbott Mellitus). Pope Pius XII restated the Church’s dedication to the principles of accommodation in 1951. . Pope Paul VI expressed his support of accepting what is good in the non-Christian religions and cultures. Vatican II regarded with reverence those teachings in other religions that reflect a ray of truth. In fact, based on the Church history of accommodation, Bernard Hwang argues for a further accommodation of ancestor cults in Asia, especially China and Taiwan. In his master’s thesis, “The Ancestors’ Rites in the Taiwanese Catholic Church,” Marco Lazzarotti shows that this accommodation has been quite significant already.

Pope John Paul II saw ancestor cult as a significant point of contact, as well. He writes in Crossing the Threshold of Hope that “it would be helpful to recall all the primitive religions, the animistic religions which stress ancestor worship. It seems that those who practice them are particularly close to Christianity.” Roman Catholic accommodation is evident in the Philippines, where although Catholicism is the common religion, the shaman or babaylan is sought for help understanding the gods, spirits and ancestors. Amulets, charms, medals and scapularies all have power to ward off evil spirits and gain blessing. Not only has ancestor cult been accommodated, but fetishes, shamans, and spirit manipulation as well.

Animism in Christianity? Part 1: Folk Christianity

 

[Walpole]

Described as such even by Puritans :

The Puritan Library • Thomas Manton • Works vol 22 p. 72

"a glorious apparition...which if any will call a glimpse of the beatifical vision, there is nothing absurd in it; for it is said, 'His [Stephen's] face shone like an angel,’ Acts 6.15"

Monergism.com • Stephen Charnock • Discourses on God's Salvation of Sinners p. 39

"Paul's conversion, by a voice, as well as by sight, by instruction as well as apparition"

Wow!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

What didn't I confirm or deny?

This is the first time I have seen someone invoke the Glomar response with regards to explaining what St. Stephen and St. Paul witnessed.

 

[Oseas3]

In another thread (now closed), a poster asserted the mysticism of apparitions has its origins in Animism.

Sts. Stephen and Paul both had mystical experiences with apparitions:

Acts 7:54-56 --> Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”


Acts 9:3-6 ---> Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”

Were these men adherents of Animism?

No, they were not adherents of Animism, absolutely. The difference is from heaven to hell. I explain.

The biblical example you have quoted, they did see the Lord JESUS, the son of God. JESUS was alive, and is alive, for ever.

In the other hand, in a culture where witch trials occur and animism is alive and well (1Samuel 28:v.11-15), have on mind the Roman Catholic Church nevertheless preaches a false and devilish Christianity through a disguised spiritism that is practised by the guides and their followers, invoking the dead or defuncts in their cults and prays.(1Samuel 28:v.11-15)

It is impressive how Satan works in the religious system of the Roman Catholic Church, in a way that his spirit in his enchantment makes the Catholics only see the idol with the supposed image of the deceased or defunct materialized in stone, wood, metal, etc., made by the hands of the sons of Devil. Then, in this way, Catholics do not discern, they do not see, they do not realize the figure of Satan himself in the image of the defuncts which they are worshipping in their cults and prays (1Samuel 28:v.11-15), whose images by the way are also surrounded/ circled by spirits of demons.

If you do not see the things as are revealed above, it is because you are blind guided by blind, and you are under the dominion of the spirit of the Devil, as such all idolaters.

 

[Walpole]

No, they were not adherents of Animism, absolutely. The difference is from heaven to hell. I explain.

The biblical example you have quoted, they did see the Lord JESUS, the son of God. JESUS was alive, and is alive, for ever.

In the other hand, in a culture where witch trials occur and animism is alive and well (1Samuel 28:v.11-15), have on mind the Roman Catholic Church nevertheless preaches a false and devilish Christianity through a disguised spiritism that is practised by the guides and their followers, invoking the dead or defuncts in their cults and prays.(1Samuel 28:v.11-15)

It is impressive how Satan works in the religious system of the Roman Catholic Church, in a way that his spirit in his enchantment makes the Catholics only see the idol with the supposed image of the deceased or defunct materialized in stone, wood, metal, etc., made by the hands of the sons of Devil. Then, in this way, Catholics do not discern, they do not see, they do not realize the figure of Satan himself in the image of the defuncts which they are worshipping in their cults and prays (1Samuel 28:v.11-15), whose images by the way are also surrounded/ circled by spirits of demons.

If you do not see the things as are revealed above, it is because you are blind guided by blind, and you are under the dominion of the spirit of the Devil, as such all idolaters.

What criteria does one use to discern if an apparition is genuine, like the one experienced by Sts. Stephen, Paul and John, versus a devilish disguised one made by the Satan via the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[Particular]

What criteria does one use to discern if an apparition is genuine, like the one experienced by Sts. Stephen, Paul and John, versus a devilish disguised one made by the Satan via the Roman Catholic Church?

Stephen wasn't an apparition, Paul was not an apparition, John was not an apparition. And certainly, Jesus is not an apparition.
You have been shown your error. You may keep arguing if you wish.

 

[Jerome]

Another Puritan, Samuel Ward:

Puritan Hard Drive • Samuel Ward • Sermon, "A Coal From The Altar, To Kindle The Holy Fire of Zeal"

"Behold the Lord God, especially thy Lord Christ, in his glorious titles and majesty; for so he begins his visions to John, and his epistles to the churches, exciting their dull hearts. By such apparitions did he set on fire the heart of Moses in the burning bush, and inflamed Stephen, his first martyr. Answerable and proportionable to which are our serious contemplations."

 

[Particular]

Another Puritan, Samuel Ward:

Puritan Hard Drive • Samuel Ward • Sermon, "A Coal From The Altar, To Kindle The Holy Fire of Zeal"

"Behold the Lord God, especially thy Lord Christ, in his glorious titles and majesty; for so he begins his visions to John, and his epistles to the churches, exciting their dull hearts. By such apparitions did he set on fire the heart of Moses in the burning bush, and inflamed Stephen, his first martyr. Answerable and proportionable to which are our serious contemplations."

Do you realize you are arguing for me? Each example is of the living God revealing himself to men.
What we never see is Mary or any of the Roman Catholic declared saints showing up. The best you have done is the Transfiguration and there the only one to be honored is Jesus.

 

[Walpole]

Stephen wasn't an apparition, Paul was not an apparition, John was not an apparition. And certainly, Jesus is not an apparition.
You have been shown your error. You may keep arguing if you wish.

Non-sequitur. No one has argued Stephen, Paul or John were apparitions.

Rather, what has been presented is their experiences with apparitions of Jesus and Mary.

 

[Walpole]

Another Puritan, Samuel Ward:

Puritan Hard Drive • Samuel Ward • Sermon, "A Coal From The Altar, To Kindle The Holy Fire of Zeal"

"Behold the Lord God, especially thy Lord Christ, in his glorious titles and majesty; for so he begins his visions to John, and his epistles to the churches, exciting their dull hearts. By such apparitions did he set on fire the heart of Moses in the burning bush, and inflamed Stephen, his first martyr. Answerable and proportionable to which are our serious contemplations."

Great series of posts!

While these quotations contradict the objections of the posters here, the reality is their main objection to acknowledging apparitions is because apparitions are associated with Catholicism and hence they must be false.

 

[Particular]

Non-sequitur. No one has argued Stephen, Paul or John were apparitions.

Rather, what has been presented is their experiences with apparitions of Jesus and Mary.

There was never an apparition of Mary and Jesus is alive, not dead. You're really reaching for it with your assertions.

 

[Walpole]

There was never an apparition of Mary and Jesus is alive, not dead. You're really reaching for it with your assertions.

Please see the opening post in this thread. St. Luke describes St. Stephen and St. Paul's encounters with an apparition of Jesus. And yes, Jesus and Mary are both very much alive, along with the all the saints in heaven.

St. John records his apparition of Mary in the 12th chapter of the Apocalypse.

 

[Particular]

Please see the opening post in this thread. St. Luke describes St. Stephen and St. Paul's encounters with an apparition of Jesus. And yes, Jesus and Mary are both very much alive, along with the all the saints in heaven.

St. John records his apparition of Mary in the 12th chapter of the Apocalypse.

This thread is about Animism. So far you have avoided it like the plague.