Annihilation

[Charlie24]

Here is an excellent article on Christian mortalism, even if it is on Wikipedia. Read all the way to the end -- fascinating.

Christian mortalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not accustomed to taking anything from Wik concerning the Scripture.

But I will read it if it's not to long.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You say that with a certainty that I don't believe is warranted.

If Jesus said it, I won't question him. I'm quoting his very words from Matthew 25:46 and since the book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ as John says, I'm also referencing Revelation 20:10.

It would be nice to believe that when lost people died that they just burnt like a crisp for a spilt-second and then it was all over.

But Jesus says otherwise.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not accustomed to taking anything from Wik concerning the Scripture.

But I will read it if it's not to long.

Just as I had imagined, but maybe worse.

Anything concerning Scripture doctrine is taken universally by Wik.

Meaning thy consider all beliefs not to exclude any particular belief.

They begin with of all things "soul sleep;"

If I were you I would stay away from such garbage.

You're much better off here on BB even with our differences.

 

[easternstar]

@easternstar - I wonder if annihilation might be more cruel and horrible than eternal conscious self-torment.

Annihilation sounds nice if you compare it to perpetual dreamless sleep. But can you imagine having never existed? That seems worse in some ways. Like you had never been born.

Eternal agony in hell at least is accompanied by a sense of self. I almost think that having my self intact, even with nightmarish anguish, in total darkness, might be better than being turned off completely. No mind. No memories. No me.

Non-existence due to annihilation — we cannot really fathom what that would be like. Of course, satan and his demons might prefer that to living in the lake of fire forever. But they are completely evil and unrepentant.

We humans might be able to recall happy, peaceful, love-filled times in our past. Might not provide any relief, but at least our identity remains.

Both annihilation and eternal punishment seem dreadful to me. I want heaven to be full and hell to be empty. But either reality, not existing or conscious torment, are so awful, we should strive to lead people to Christ so they avoid damnation.

I've had days, moments, where I wished I'd never been born.

But your post is a good one.

 

[easternstar]

I'm not accustomed to taking anything from Wik concerning the Scripture.

But I will read it if it's not to long.

Good info there on contrasting viewpoints.

 

[easternstar]

If Jesus said it, I won't question him. I'm quoting his very words from Matthew 25:46 and since the book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ as John says, I'm also referencing Revelation 20:10.

It would be nice to believe that when lost people died that they just burnt like a crisp for a spilt-second and then it was all over.

But Jesus says otherwise.

Well, I won't get into it here, but original meanings of words matter to me.

 

[easternstar]

Just as I had imagined, but maybe worse.

Anything concerning Scripture doctrine is taken universally by Wik.

Meaning thy consider all beliefs not to exclude any particular belief.

They begin with of all things "soul sleep;"

If I were you I would stay away from such garbage.

You're much better off here on BB even with our differences.

I like to read different viewpoints, even widely divergent and opposite ones. I'm not afraid of doing that.

 

[Charlie24]

Good info there on contrasting viewpoints.

The good thing about BB is that you will hear the truth, you will see some very interesting controversies over Scripture in a wide range.

Very good place to learn, to hear the details of any given matter from the understanding of some very smart people on Scripture.

I've studied the Scripture for over 50 years and in detail, and I learn something virtually every day here reading posts.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I like to read different viewpoints, even widely divergent and opposite ones. I'm not afraid of doing that.

No one here is afraid of reading anything. There are things we may read and things we won't.

I've read parts of Mein Kampf in college and a few stories in English that I hated, but I read them. I didn't fear any of it.

But there are things I will not read. Playboy magazine is an opposing viewpoint to mine, but I do not fear it. I stay away from those opposing views because I already know what they are and they disgust me.

"Soul sleep" is an opposing viewpoint of most Baptists. I already know what it is and do not need to read about it.

 

[Cathode]

No one here is afraid of reading anything. There are things we may read and things we won't.

I've read parts of Mein Kampf in college and a few stories in English that I hated, but I read them. I didn't fear any of it.

You didn't notice a little goose in your step after reading Mein Kampf?

 

[Cathode]

I've always loved Jesus' answer. "You are mistaken because you don't know the scripture." We should all look at ourselves through the lens of THAT verse!

That's what I've been telling people all along. Don't trust private interpretation of Scripture ours or anyone else's.

 

[easternstar]

No one here is afraid of reading anything. There are things we may read and things we won't.

I've read parts of Mein Kampf in college and a few stories in English that I hated, but I read them. I didn't fear any of it.

But there are things I will not read. Playboy magazine is an opposing viewpoint to mine, but I do not fear it. I stay away from those opposing views because I already know what they are and they disgust me.

"Soul sleep" is an opposing viewpoint of most Baptists. I already know what it is and do not need to read about it.

I wasn't meaning to imply that people here were afraid of reading opposing viewpoints.

 

[easternstar]

In considering the three views of eternal hell, universalism, and annihilation, it has seemed to me that eternal hell shortchanges God on mercy and justice; universalism on justice and human free will, but that annihilation encompasses both justice and mercy.

Neither eternal hell nor universalism seemed quite right to me; that's why I looked at alternatives, like annihilation. I am not yet convinced of it, however. It does seem to make more sense than either eternal hell or universalism. It is interesting that more evangelicals are believing it, as they are uncomfortable with the idea that a loving, just, and merciful God would punish eternally.

On kind of a side note: I've noticed quite a strange or peculiar phenomenon when objections or questioning of eternal hell comes up. Seems as if some Christians get downright offended, taking it as a personal affront if an evil-doer didn't have to suffer for eternity for deeds done in a normal human life span.

Whichever view is true, I do believe God is much more loving, just, and merciful than any human being. And I am grateful for His bearing with me as I try to sort this out.

 

[Ben1445]

It is interesting that more evangelicals are believing it, as they are uncomfortable with the idea that a loving, just, and merciful God would punish eternally.

I note that with that increasing unwillingness to believe in a harsh judgment has been matched by a “buddy god” who does the same things as men. An idea that Jesus was just one of the guys and did the things that sinful people want to do, is a way of trying to excuse the sin people want to be comfortable with. If God is not perceived as holy, there is no basis for “extreme” judgment.
If we have adjusted our standards of right and wrong, and made them different from God’s standards, we will eventually not see any need for a harsh judgment of the wicked.

 

[easternstar]

I note that with that increasing unwillingness to believe in a harsh judgment has been matched by a “buddy god” who does the same things as men. An idea that Jesus was just one of the guys and did the things that sinful people want to do, is a way of trying to excuse the sin people want to be comfortable with. If God is not perceived as holy, there is no basis for “extreme” judgment.
If we have adjusted our standards of right and wrong, and made them different from God’s standards, we will eventually not see any need for a harsh judgment of the wicked.

I think there is a difference between a harsh judgement and an unjust or unreasonable judgement.