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Another look at Matthew 15:24
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Van yes you could say Christ was "among" the Jews but to say He was sent among the Jews is awkward to say the least. And it really does not fit the context.
Just because a word can be translated that way does not mean it should be translated that way. Context has to be considered to find the proper translation.
I have addressed the mistranslation. You are simply posting obfuscation.
See posts #19 and 20.
1) It fits the context! He was sent only among the multitude of the lost sheep.
2) He was sent only among the lost sheep fits with the context that He had not been sent among the Gentiles, one of which was asking for favor.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Van you have a very strange way of reading. Van you have to change the wording to make your translation sound logical.
I am curious Van, do you have any translation that translates the verse as you have?
Just because a word can be translated that way does not mean it should be translated that way. Context has to be considered to find the proper translation.
Here are 21 bible translations that all sat "TO". Are you saying that the all got it wrong or that you are a better translator than any of them?
(ESV) He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(LSB) But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(ASV) But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(HNV) But he answered, "I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Yisra'el."
(AMP) He answered, “I was commissioned by God and sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(CSB) He replied, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(NSAB20) But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
(WEB) But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(BSB 1.2) He answered, was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(Bull) But He answered and said, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(ISV*s) But he replied, was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation [Lit. house] of Israel.
(KJV) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(LEB Q) But he answered and [*Here and is supplied because the previous participle (has been translated as a finite verb] said, was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NASB 95 ct) But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(NET+) SoN32 he answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(NIV) He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
(NKJV-rs) But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(NLTs) Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep—the people of Israel."
(NRSV ct) He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(YLT) and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'
(WPNT) But in answer He said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Two more posts disparaging me and then posting a boat load of redundant verbiage.
Do they really think a majority view cannot be wrong. Do they not know that Jesus taught the views of the experts were wrong?
Did they say the lost sheep were not a multitude, or that "eis" is not translated as among when entry into a multitude is in vew? Nope.
I have pointed out that "eis" should be translated as among at Matthew 15:24, and the only rebuttal is "taint so."
The evidence of "group think" is provided by the redundant copies of Matthew 15:24 where the translators seemingly tried to match the English words of this verse with the English words translating a different statement in Matthew 10:6.
In Mat. 15:24, Jesus says "only among (eis)" and in Matthew 10:6 He says"go to (pros). Neither verse says sent or go only to the lost sheep.
Do they really think a majority view cannot be wrong. Do they not know that Jesus taught the views of the experts were wrong?
Did they say the lost sheep were not a multitude, or that "eis" is not translated as among when entry into a multitude is in vew? Nope.
I have pointed out that "eis" should be translated as among at Matthew 15:24, and the only rebuttal is "taint so."
The evidence of "group think" is provided by the redundant copies of Matthew 15:24 where the translators seemingly tried to match the English words of this verse with the English words translating a different statement in Matthew 10:6.
In Mat. 15:24, Jesus says "only among (eis)" and in Matthew 10:6 He says"go to (pros). Neither verse says sent or go only to the lost sheep.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Do the naysayers really think a majority view cannot be wrong. Do they not know that Jesus taught the views of the experts were wrong?
Did they say the lost sheep were not a multitude, or that "eis" is not translated as among when entry into a multitude is in view? Nope.
I have pointed out that "eis" should be translated as among at Matthew 15:24, and the only rebuttal is "taint so."
The evidence of "group think" is provided by the redundant copies of Matthew 15:24 where the translators seemingly tried to match the English words of this verse with the English words translating a different statement in Matthew 10:6.
In Mat. 15:24, Jesus says "only among (eis)" and in Matthew 10:6 He says"go to (pros). Neither verse says sent or go only to the lost sheep.
At issue is whether Christ's gospel provides the opportunity of salvation to everyone and anyone who believes, rather than the gospel is only for individuals already chosen before they hear the gospel. That is why the superior translation choice of "among" is being rejected
Did they say the lost sheep were not a multitude, or that "eis" is not translated as among when entry into a multitude is in view? Nope.
I have pointed out that "eis" should be translated as among at Matthew 15:24, and the only rebuttal is "taint so."
The evidence of "group think" is provided by the redundant copies of Matthew 15:24 where the translators seemingly tried to match the English words of this verse with the English words translating a different statement in Matthew 10:6.
In Mat. 15:24, Jesus says "only among (eis)" and in Matthew 10:6 He says"go to (pros). Neither verse says sent or go only to the lost sheep.
At issue is whether Christ's gospel provides the opportunity of salvation to everyone and anyone who believes, rather than the gospel is only for individuals already chosen before they hear the gospel. That is why the superior translation choice of "among" is being rejected
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Matthew 15 and context.
1) Jesus ministry was not to gentiles, he said.
2) The gentile woman could not expect blessing from Jesus Christ under the claim as "the son of David."
3) The gentile woman had no covenant claims.
4) She recieved an audience with Jesus when she approached him on the principle of "grace."
5) She understood that blessings to gentiles come through the Jews.
6) The gentile woman had better dispensational understanding in those days than does some after 2000 years and a complete Bible, according to Jesus Christ.
Jn 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.(He was glorified when he resurrected from the dead in a glorified body)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Gentiles cannot worship God in the Spirit until the Father began seeking gentiles to worship him in Spirit. This occurred in Acts 10 with Cornelius when God baptized the world with the Holy Ghost. This was in 40 AD.When the first gentile was saved by receiving the unseen Spirit of God by faith in the gospel, there was no physical manifestation of God present at that time.
It is always a bad idea to feel the need to change the word of God to make it fit your own ideas of God and his person and work.
1) Jesus ministry was not to gentiles, he said.
2) The gentile woman could not expect blessing from Jesus Christ under the claim as "the son of David."
3) The gentile woman had no covenant claims.
4) She recieved an audience with Jesus when she approached him on the principle of "grace."
5) She understood that blessings to gentiles come through the Jews.
6) The gentile woman had better dispensational understanding in those days than does some after 2000 years and a complete Bible, according to Jesus Christ.
Jn 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.(He was glorified when he resurrected from the dead in a glorified body)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Gentiles cannot worship God in the Spirit until the Father began seeking gentiles to worship him in Spirit. This occurred in Acts 10 with Cornelius when God baptized the world with the Holy Ghost. This was in 40 AD.When the first gentile was saved by receiving the unseen Spirit of God by faith in the gospel, there was no physical manifestation of God present at that time.
It is always a bad idea to feel the need to change the word of God to make it fit your own ideas of God and his person and work.
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This post addressed to no one specifically says it is bad to feel the need to change the word of God, and make it fit your own ideas. I think we all are for motherhood and apple pie.
Was Jesus sent only to those of Jewish bloodline? Nope. God so loved humanity so that everyone (Jew or Gentile) believing into Him will have everlasting life.
When did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, when He died on the cross or years later? When He died.
When did Jesus say to make disciples of all nations? About 40 days after His death.
Did Greeks come to see Jesus during His public ministry? Yes
Are these points at issue? Nope - so obfuscation on display
No one can come unless drawn (attracted by His lovingkindness) by the Father.
Van, do you know that Jesus Christ came to Judah to fulfill all the OT prophecies considering the kingdom and that is what he preached to Israel during the entire course of his earthly ministry and at the very end of it he began to tell his disciples that he came to die and rise from the dead and not a single one of them understood and none of them believed it after it happened? Can you believe what all four of the gospel writers who chronicles his earthly ministry reported in their inspired writings that he preached the gospel, the good news and glad tidings of the kingdom? The very fact that these men were with him and were commissioned to preach the very same message that he preached and then came to the very end without having a hint that he would die and rise again from the dead just proves that the gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the gospel of Christ, the gospel of the grace of God, which is clearly defined in the first few verses of 2 Cor 15 and is the gospel to all men.This seems to be the reason they fall for errant systematic theologies that are developed by unwashed men whom they perceived to be a few clicks ahead of themselves.
Another thing it proves is that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. All these disciples of Jesus were natural men when they walked the dusty trails of the ministry of Jesus with him. They could not grasp the nature and the character and the extinct of his ministry until they had received his Spirit after he died and rose again. Neither can religious men like many on these boards understand the scriptures because they simply do not have the Spirit who alone can give discernment and understanding no matter their education and social standing. Men cannot understand the mind of God by natural and fleshly means. However they can develop systamatic theologies that are untrue.
Now I can prove this what I am claiming beyond a reasonable doubt but I doubt you will believe it because you have taught yourself that you cannot believe the words God has given to us without changing them to suit your own desires. If you doubt I can prove this then just challenge me to do it and I will in my next post to you. If you want to remain ignorant than it is your choice but know that changing the word of God is the same as not believing what he says.
Matt 10::1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Lk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
These men preached this gospel with confidence believing Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah and future King of Israel like he said he was and that he had come to immediately set up his kingdom over Israel. They were not guessing about the kingdom message. They understood it from the OT scriptures.
Luke 19:11
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Meditate on these things and remeber what he said in these quotes when I prove what I say from the scriptures.
The kingdom that was at hand according to our Lord will have been established after the model of the Moses pattern with 12 heads over the 12 tribes and the 70 elders to serve in administration of the kingdom. It was delayed because of the unbelief of the powers that were established already. These held sway over the people.
Matt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Is there any use to ask most of the posters here to believe this is valid? Do you believe it?
Why quote my post then not address it?
Was Jesus sent only to those of Jewish bloodline? Nope. God so loved humanity so that everyone (Jew or Gentile) believing into Him will have everlasting life.
When did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, when He died on the cross or years later? When He died.
When did Jesus say to make disciples of all nations? About 40 days after His death.
Did Greeks come to see Jesus during His public ministry? Yes
Did any of the above claim Jesus did not come to fulfill OT prophecy? Nope
Did any of the above claim the Apostles understood the gospel fully before Christ died, arose, ascended, and sent the Helper? Nope
Did any of the above claim the lost can understand all of the things of the Spirit? Nope
Did any of the above claim the disciples were not sent to the lost sheep? Nope
Did I claim not to believe the word of God? Nope
Now lets put the shoe on the other foot.
Did you claim changing the translation choice for "eis" from "to" and going with "among" was changing the word of God? Yes
Is that a false claim? Yes
Thanks for agreeing with me!!!
Jesus was sent only into the lost sheep!!!! To change "into" and render it "to" is to take away from the word of God and alter its message.
I really think you believe I didn't.
Either you have not followed the story line or you refuse to believe it.
Jesus Christ did propitiate God by his sacrifice but the application is of the Father, the judge of all the earth. He says four times in scripture that it is to the Jew first.
He said there was an order for the ministry. It was to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the uttermost part of the earth. A casual reading of the history of the spread of the gospel will indicate the apostles got it. The apostle charged to go to the world was not even saved until 37/38 AD. The door of faith was not opened to the gentiles until Cornelius in Acts 10. This is a healthy 10 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
That is not the right question. The right question is did Jesus go to seek after gentiles during his earthly ministry. A reasonable and logical person will answer the question honestly.
That is not the argument. The argument is that the disciples did not know anything about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ because that was not the message to Israel they had been preaching. All 4 gospel writers and Jesus himself testified to this truth in the last days of this ministry.
Error! They did not understand the gospel of Christ at all. Each one of them said so. This proves the saying in scripture that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit. It is foolishness to them.
Seven of the best of them went back to their fishing jobs after they had seen the resurrected Lord Jesus. They did not understand the ministry of Jesus.
No, it is you who is claiming that.You change the words of scripture because you don't believe them Jesus said in Matt 15: "I am not sent BUT to the lost sheep of the house (family) of Israel. He defines his ministry as exclusive.
I know what you teach. You often disagree with the words of God.
I define the words and ways of God much differently than you based on the words I read that claims to be an eye witness record of chosen men. If you do not have an eye witness account of our way of salvation then I pity you.
I've no idea how this post (#36) relates to post #35.