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Another man beaten to death
- Thread starter Gina B
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Gina - what exactly is "wow"? What *exactly* happened?
poncho
Well-Known Member
http://newsok.com/man-dies-friday-night-while-being-handcuffed-at-moore-theater/article/3934187
According to this the man just up and died when the police tried to put handcuffs on him.
Sounds more reasonable than the daughter's story, doesn it?
According to this the man just up and died when the police tried to put handcuffs on him.
Sounds more reasonable than the daughter's story, doesn it?
What's wow? A child watched her father get beaten to death in a parking lot. That's pretty wow and from the information so far, it's not sounding all that great for the officers involved.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the video on the phone. People who are lying don't generally announce that there is a video that shows what happened. I'm guessing the movie theater has video of the parking lot.
I found another version of the story. It's really interesting how this one doesn't say he knew the people in the "fight," and the perspective that he simply stopped breathing and died.
http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/authorities-investigate-mans-death-in-moore/24506030
http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/authorities-investigate-mans-death-in-moore/24506030
And yet another one! This one talks about the cell phones. Apparently more than one recording was out there. Something doesn't sound right about seizing all the cell phones, and saying it is to prevent the videos from being tampered with. Aren't the cell phones private property? Are they really allowed to seize those without a warrant? It says on there they have to get a warrant to even look at the video on them, and they haven't gotten that yet. ????
http://kfor.com/2014/02/15/family-looks-for-answers-after-loved-one-dies-in-police-custody/
http://kfor.com/2014/02/15/family-looks-for-answers-after-loved-one-dies-in-police-custody/
Gina--Channel 9 and another source said one video. Channel 4 now indicates more than one cell phone recording. Why do you trust channel 4 more than channel 9 or the other source?
Next question: what *exactly* happened? Did the man ignore police who were attempting to respond to a domestic incident? Did he resist them, thereby causing them to increase their amount of force used, resulting in the bloody face mentioned in one of the reports? Or did they put handcuffs on him and he stopped breathing, as one report said?
Where exactly was the wife? In one report, she was in a car and he was trying to get to the car to keep it from driving away. From other reports, there's no mention of her being in a car, but that she was asking the police why they were arresting him. If it was your husband, would you be recording it, or would you be as near to your husband's side as possible?
This is a tragedy. But the initial reports are varied and confusing. Let's try to think critically, and wait a bit for the rest of the story before we condemn anyone.
poncho
Well-Known Member
No they are not allowed to seize cell phones or stop anyone from recording them.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/09/court-rules-citizens-can-record-police-2/
Thank you Poncho. I'm wondering if the police may have a legal out on that *if* the cell phones seized all belonged to people who were involved, though it sounds like one may have only been indirectly, if that one was also taken. The news isn't clear, even with all the stories put together.
Don, as far as the different places that reported, I don't have a preference for the channel four one. I've watched all three that I posted for a few years, and my take on them goes as follows:
No source is to be completely trusted.
4: The least accurate and the most slanted, usually biased towards government and against citizens.
5: Typically accurate, but as capable as any other news source of taking sides when it comes to keeping a good relationship with the right people.
9: The most likely to sensationalize a story and try to stir up controversy at the expense of the truth.
It's no secret that central OK has an ongoing effort to address this type of problem, so it's not unknown that it is happening. The good news is that they are addressing it. To what degree, who knows, but transparency with stories like this are telling. It will be interesting to see what they end up saying. In the meantime, try doing a search on this issue. He's not the first person in the area to just quit breathing in police custody in Oklahoma recently...
Don, as far as the different places that reported, I don't have a preference for the channel four one. I've watched all three that I posted for a few years, and my take on them goes as follows:
No source is to be completely trusted.
4: The least accurate and the most slanted, usually biased towards government and against citizens.
5: Typically accurate, but as capable as any other news source of taking sides when it comes to keeping a good relationship with the right people.
9: The most likely to sensationalize a story and try to stir up controversy at the expense of the truth.
It's no secret that central OK has an ongoing effort to address this type of problem, so it's not unknown that it is happening. The good news is that they are addressing it. To what degree, who knows, but transparency with stories like this are telling. It will be interesting to see what they end up saying. In the meantime, try doing a search on this issue. He's not the first person in the area to just quit breathing in police custody in Oklahoma recently...
poncho
Well-Known Member
Protecting your constitutional rights while recording police
New York City police officer Michael Ackermann was indicted on three felony counts and five misdemeanors for lying about the circumstances that led to the arrest of NY Times photog Robert Stolarik. Steve Silverman, executive director of Flex Your Rights, joins us to talk about that case and how to protect your rights when photographing or recording police officers. When interactions between police and citizens are being recorded, the number of police incidents and complaints drops, Silverman says, and he reminds viewers that you always have the right to openly record on-duty police officers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD1MykYrYnY&feature=share&list=UUczrL-2b-gYK3l4yDld4XlQ
New York City police officer Michael Ackermann was indicted on three felony counts and five misdemeanors for lying about the circumstances that led to the arrest of NY Times photog Robert Stolarik. Steve Silverman, executive director of Flex Your Rights, joins us to talk about that case and how to protect your rights when photographing or recording police officers. When interactions between police and citizens are being recorded, the number of police incidents and complaints drops, Silverman says, and he reminds viewers that you always have the right to openly record on-duty police officers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD1MykYrYnY&feature=share&list=UUczrL-2b-gYK3l4yDld4XlQ
And yet by and large the majority of our police across the country are honorable men and women who do a fine job.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I know Don. What was I thinking? Probably that most people here don't give a hoot one way or the other. Or perhaps I was thinking the perceived "authoritarian majority" here will take sides with those wielding power no matter what and call me a "moonbat" or some other such thing for thinking our rights need to be protected and defended at all times.
You can post it as a separate thread if you want to.
Okay so then I guess being an informed citizen and knowing our rights is going way overboard because there are only a few thousand cops that abuse their authority every year. Is that what you're saying Rev?
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The police have been trained to coerce into "giving up our rights" by making demands, that force us to disobey in order to excercise our rights.
Ex: "Sir, can you step out of the vehicle?"
Try saying "no" (no one can legally search your private property without a court-ordered mandate).
You will be told that you are "resisting LEO".
If you do exit your vehicle, unbeknownst to you, you have just given up your right to deny the search.
You WILL NOT BE ADVISED OF THIS, prior to being told in a command tone, to exit the vehicle, with a question word thrown in for pretense.
What gets me is that it's pointless to ask questions, since police officers are allowed to lie.
I think this may have been one of the worst things, not even for citizens, but for honest police officers who really do want to be decent and trusted, and who do a decent job. How on earth does it build trust when a police officer is allowed, by law, to lie? If a citizen lies to an officer, it is illegal. An officer is ALLOWED to lie.
That immediately makes all police officers untrustworthy. Why should I trust someone with a gun, when I know that person is allowed to lie to me? From the start, that person is suspect and if I have had any negative experiences or anyone I know has had any negative experiences, that distrust is compounded.
What just happened to that police officer's safety if the people all around feel unsafe? What happens when they need help? Will they call? What happens when an officer needs help from citizens around? Will they step up? Will they be witnesses?
Even if 99% of police officers are wonderful people, it doesn't matter. The unjustified knee to your face that ends your life that comes from one of the officers in the 1% won't be any less painful or any less wrong. The money that you'll pay from the lawsuit if you're lucky enough to only have to pay for a settlement for someone else's kid instead of paying for your child's burial from one is still your cash.
So yep, still a problem. Death and abuse are big problems, no matter how small the numbers. It's like asking how much poop is okay to put in the brownie batter. Is there really a tolerable amount you want mixed in there? You might be lucky enough to not taste it, but you're still gonna eat it. Is that okay?
I think this may have been one of the worst things, not even for citizens, but for honest police officers who really do want to be decent and trusted, and who do a decent job. How on earth does it build trust when a police officer is allowed, by law, to lie? If a citizen lies to an officer, it is illegal. An officer is ALLOWED to lie.
That immediately makes all police officers untrustworthy. Why should I trust someone with a gun, when I know that person is allowed to lie to me? From the start, that person is suspect and if I have had any negative experiences or anyone I know has had any negative experiences, that distrust is compounded.
What just happened to that police officer's safety if the people all around feel unsafe? What happens when they need help? Will they call? What happens when an officer needs help from citizens around? Will they step up? Will they be witnesses?
Even if 99% of police officers are wonderful people, it doesn't matter. The unjustified knee to your face that ends your life that comes from one of the officers in the 1% won't be any less painful or any less wrong. The money that you'll pay from the lawsuit if you're lucky enough to only have to pay for a settlement for someone else's kid instead of paying for your child's burial from one is still your cash.
So yep, still a problem. Death and abuse are big problems, no matter how small the numbers. It's like asking how much poop is okay to put in the brownie batter. Is there really a tolerable amount you want mixed in there? You might be lucky enough to not taste it, but you're still gonna eat it. Is that okay?
poncho
Well-Known Member
Family looks for answers after loved one dies in police custody
The family claims the officers started beating him while he was on the ground and they recorded the entire thing on their cell phones.
At one point, Luis stopped breathing and police immediately called for medical help. Sadly, he died a short time later.
Nair said her family doesn’t have the video anymore because police seized their cell phones.
Moore police say they’re in the process of getting a warrant for the cell phone video. They say they had to take the phones to protect the video from tampering and they won’t look at it until they get the warrant.
http://kfor.com/2014/02/15/family-looks-for-answers-after-loved-one-dies-in-police-custody/
The family claims the officers started beating him while he was on the ground and they recorded the entire thing on their cell phones.
At one point, Luis stopped breathing and police immediately called for medical help. Sadly, he died a short time later.
Nair said her family doesn’t have the video anymore because police seized their cell phones.
Moore police say they’re in the process of getting a warrant for the cell phone video. They say they had to take the phones to protect the video from tampering and they won’t look at it until they get the warrant.
http://kfor.com/2014/02/15/family-looks-for-answers-after-loved-one-dies-in-police-custody/
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