Another "member" thread

[donnA]

I stand corrected. Guess I dont watch enough of Blue Collar Comedy.

I don't watch it either, but this has been around for so long most people have heard it.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Spinach,

"I appreciate the rudeness and implication of dishonesty, though. I'm sure it was appropriate."

I havent even posted on this thread, just been reading casually, and even I noticed the same thing.

Very odd.

Start a simple thread, and you get insulted, and slandered, and accused of ulterior motives.

Folks, we are all christians here!!!

Remember this?....

"By this all will know you are my disciples, by your love one for another"

:godisgood:

 

[gb93433]

I wonder how often Paul visited his home church?

 

[Spinach]

I never said any such thing.

You implied it. I don't have the exact quotes right in front of me, but you said something to the effect that it sounded like it wasn't a hypothetical and then you asked what the "hypothetical" church had to say about it.

If that isn't an implication of dishonesty, I don't know what is.

 

[Spinach]

This thread was interesting to me and I'm glad you started it, Spinach. I've personally seen this scenario happen in a church we once attended. It was not good. The singing group was "independent" and needed accounability. They ended up singing at other churches but not getting fed spiritually. It ended very badly and was a bad testimony to the community.

Did they not submit to the authority of the church or was the church passive in the group's independent nature?

 

[Spinach]

If you haven't already noticed, there are a few here who will simply refuse to NOT participate in a thread they deem "useless", but will even go so far as to chastise you for starting the thread.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is here! After a while you'll learn to just ignore these nay-sayers.

I suppose I've been here long enough to be initiated, eh?

Really, I don't mind taking heat for something I've said wrong, but this one was just strange, imo.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Getting back to the subject, I like what you said Tom

Now, let me tell you how to handle it, from both ends. First, the trio should go to the pastor and church leaders to tell them what they would like to do, and ask to go as music evangelists under the auspices of the church. They will go as representatives of the church (as did Paul and Silas from Antioch), be accountable to the church, and report to the church. The trio sees this as a ministry, and seeks the church's blessing.

I think this is the best way to handle it.

Assuming the church wanted to support this trio, I would consider taking this a step further and ordaining them. They need to go out as a ministry of the church, not separate from it. As far as ministries they can participate in when they are at church teaching would be a hard one. If you can't count on their regular attendance then there are limits to the responsibilities you can give them. If they can attend regular meetings then they might be able to serve as trusties, but being a deacon involves a lot of time and emergency type calls. I don't know how they could discharge those duties.

As far as sending them a bulletin, yea. And gb93433 Paul may not have been able to attend his sending church very often, but he did write some letters.

 

[mcdirector]

Getting back to the subject, I like what you said Tom
I think this is the best way to handle it.

Assuming the church wanted to support this trio, I would consider taking this a step further and ordaining them. They need to go out as a ministry of the church, not separate from it. As far as ministries they can participate in when they are at church teaching would be a hard one. If you can't count on their regular attendance then there are limits to the responsibilities you can give them. If they can attend regular meetings then they might be able to serve as trusties, but being a deacon involves a lot of time and emergency type calls. I don't know how they could discharge those duties.

As far as sending them a bulletin, yea. And gb93433 Paul may not have been able to attend his sending church very often, but he did write some letters.

I like what Tom said too - and your addition. They should not be going out on their own - ordination, if the church felt led would give them more authority.

 

[donnA]

They need to go out as a ministry of the church, not separate from it

I agree. This is how it was handled in our old church, they were representing God and our church when they went out and the pastor had to be informed of when and where they were going to sing, or any other ministry it might involve, not necessarily singing.

 

[abcgrad94]

Did they not submit to the authority of the church or was the church passive in the group's independent nature?

They just did what they wanted without discussing it with the pastor or church. One of the singers was a deacon and Sunday School teacher. It was a pride issue. They had talent, and knew it, and it was more important than being in church under the pastor's teaching. There was fighting between the singers/artists for "control" over the group.

They also made CD's and sang songs without copyright permission, and sold the CD's, which is a violation of the copyright laws.

 

[Tom Butler]

iI wouldn't be for ordaining any of those folks just because they're ministering under auspices of the church. Ordination, in my view, is for pastors and deacons.

 

[gb93433]

Ordination, in my view, is for pastors and deacons.

The United States military does not think so.

 

[donnA]

The United States military does not think so.

Christ's church is not the United States military, what they 'think' doesn't matter when it comes to christianity.

 

[MB]

Let's throw out a hypothetical for discussion...

In your church there is a man who has a great musical talent. His brother and brother's wife sing with him. They are a wonderful trio. They have a great spirit and the people are encouraged by their music.

In time, with the help of community-open singsperations, they are invited to other churches to sing. At first they sing only at revivals on nights when they are not at their home church. Eventually, they are quite popular and they start going to other churches when they would ordinarily be at their own church.

This trio is faithful to send their tithes and offerings home. They are in their home church when they do not have a singing engagement elsewhere.

Here are the questions:

Do you consider them active members of the church? Why or Why not?

Do you feel obligated to mail them the weekly bulletins to keep them updated on the church doings? Why or Why not?

When they are at their home church, can they fill their normal teaching roles? Why or why not?

Can the brothers be Deacons or Trustees?

Further thoughts?

It would depend on God's leading first and foremost.
MB

 

[gb93433]

Christ's church is not the United States military, what they 'think' doesn't matter when it comes to christianity.

So are you suggesting that young male chaplains counsel women in the military instead of women chaplains?

While what you say is true, many Christians and denominations view ordination as unbiblical. Getting ordained did absolutely nothing for me personally and did nothing to help me make disciples. It was nothing more than a bunch of hoops to go thorugh because it made me look like I was "approved" by some in the denomination. The proof of my ministry is not in the questions I answer, but in the disciples I made. Not one question was about my ministry over the years but strictly about doctrinal issues. I could have answered al of the questions correctly and not ever made one disciple of Jesus Christ and still been ordained.

 

[Tom Butler]

I didn't intend to sidetrack the thread with my answer about ordination. I don't equate chaplains with a gospel singing group. My point was about the relationship between the singers and their church, and whether they should operate independently of their church.

Let's start another thread if one wants to debate the ordination of chaplains.

 

[PeterM]

Absolutely!!! One of the greatest privileges of any church (and pastor for that matter) is to give your people away in a manner that blesses other churches. Resources and talents are not ment to be hoarded or kept, but shared with others.

I see no difference between this "hypothetical" situation and a real senario that involves a pastor/professor/preacher who is a member of one congregation and serves in other churches as they have need, even if that involves an interim position.

Can you say ANTIOCH!!!

 

[donnA]

So are you suggesting that young male chaplains counsel women in the military instead of women chaplains?

While what you say is true, many Christians and denominations view ordination as unbiblical. Getting ordained did absolutely nothing for me personally and did nothing to help me make disciples. It was nothing more than a bunch of hoops to go thorugh because it made me look like I was "approved" by some in the denomination. The proof of my ministry is not in the questions I answer, but in the disciples I made. Not one question was about my ministry over the years but strictly about doctrinal issues. I could have answered al of the questions correctly and not ever made one disciple of Jesus Christ and still been ordained.

male pastors counsel women in the church all the time, or are you suggesting we need female pastors too?
This would violate scripture.
And, we as the church of Jesus do not have the US millitary as biblical authority as to whats right and wrong, nor 'some denominations', but scripture alone. Poeple wish to violate scripture every day, and many of those are christians, who prefer to do life their way not God's.

 

[donnA]

Originally Posted by Spinach
The more I think about it, DonnA, the more I resent the implication of my dishonesty. I think you owe me an apology (in my best Cole Oyl voice---from the Popeye movie).

This is just a hypothetical, open to differing opinions----only for conversational purposes.

But you did say

this is mostly hypothetical

And the part that isn't hypothetical?

 

[Spinach]

And the part that isn't hypothetical?

Type, backspace, type, backspace...

I typed that it was mostly a hypothetical after you insulted me. I went on to say that it was based slightly on my remembrance of my aunt and uncle----with all the rest of the story being made up by yours truly.

You can defend your insults, but that doesn't make it any less so.