Another "member" thread

[gb93433]

male pastors counsel women in the church all the time, or are you suggesting we need female pastors too?

Male pastors are in the news for violating women almost every week too. Shall we do nothing to prevent that or shall we continue on providing opportunities for temptation?

This would violate scripture.
And, we as the church of Jesus do not have the US military as biblical authority as to whats right and wrong, nor 'some denominations', but scripture alone. People wish to violate scripture every day, and many of those are christians, who prefer to do life their way not God's.

There are churches which have women counselors that are very well trained. Before my wife and I were married she saw a lady in the church who was a professional conselor and had a practice of her own. She was much better equipped than the pastor and had lots of training and degrees in that area. Most pastors have very little or no training in counseling. When I went to seminary it was not required at all. However I did take some classes because I knew that it would be needed.

In the parachurch organization I was involved in it was never permissible to counsel a woman. Another woman always did that.

Some of the women in churches would like nothing better than to trap the pastor into doing something they would like and to do something he should not.

When I worked in industry we had glass walls for our offices to prevent that very problem. The church should always take greater care than a business where non-Christians work because it is held to a higher standard. Christians should have the highest ethics of anyone.

To think that a pastor can counsel better than a woman counselor if ridiculous. Where are the older women teaching the younger women? How does the pastor fulfill that role?

If you look back at what the early Christians did, a pastor never dealt with a lady in the church. That was very much consider a taboo. It was the role of the women leaders in the church to deal with the women in the church. In fact today that practice is still common in many of the churches in those countries. If you read some of the early church documents you will quickly see that the mixing of men and women was not like what we do today. Look at how promiscuous the church is today. It is amazing how many young peope in the church today have done things they should have never done which in earlier years would have never been considered.

When I pastored it was never the men who had a problem with my stance on counseling women. It was the women who did.

There are also men who have violated women numerous times and there are women who have falsely accused the pastor of things he did not do.

Women should be daling with women and men with men.

What you write about is American Christianity with its promiscuous ways and not historical bibilical Christianity making every effort to maintain its holiness and integrity.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Do you consider them active members of the church? Why or Why not?

Sure. Why not? They are participating in active ministry....just not at the church they are members of. Nothing wrong with this.

Do you feel obligated to mail them the weekly bulletins to keep them updated on the church doings? Why or Why not?

If they ask for it, I might. Maybe their Sunday school class could be responsible for this.

When they are at their home church, can they fill their normal teaching roles? Why or why not?

Nothing against them, but if they are out a lot, maybe they should step back into the assistant teaching role, and give up the main role to someone who could be there every week.

Can the brothers be Deacons or Trustees?

Sure. Unless there would be something else keeping them from it. The sistern too.

Further thoughts? No.

 

[annsni]

Male pastors are in the news for violating women almost every week too. Shall we do nothing to prevent that or shall we continue on providing opportunities for temptation?
There are churches which have women counselors that are very well trained. Before my wife and I were married she saw a lady in the church who was a professional conselor and had a practice of her own. She was much better equipped than the pastor and had lots of training and degrees in that area. Most pastors have very little or no training in counseling. When I went to seminary it was not required at all. However I did take some classes because I knew that it would be needed.

In the parachurch organization I was involved in it was never permissible to counsel a woman. Another woman always did that.

Some of the women in churches would like nothing better than to trap the pastor into doing something they would like and to do something he should not.

When I worked in industry we had glass walls for our offices to prevent that very problem. The church should always take greater care than a business where non-Christians work because it is held to a higher standard. Christians should have the highest ethics of anyone.

To think that a pastor can counsel better than a woman counselor if ridiculous. Where are the older women teaching the younger women? How does the pastor fulfill that role?

If you look back at what the early Christians did, a pastor never dealt with a lady in the church. That was very much consider a taboo. It was the role of the women leaders in the church to deal with the women in the church. In fact today that practice is still common in many of the churches in those countries. If you read some of the early church documents you will quickly see that the mixing of men and women was not like what we do today. Look at how promiscuous the church is today. It is amazing how many young peope in the church today have done things they should have never done which in earlier years would have never been considered.

When I pastored it was never the men who had a problem with my stance on counseling women. It was the women who did.

There are also men who have violated women numerous times and there are women who have falsely accused the pastor of things he did not do.

Women should be daling with women and men with men.

What you write about is American Christianity with its promiscuous ways and not historical bibilical Christianity making every effort to maintain its holiness and integrity.

In our church, at times, a pastor has counseled a woman but another woman must either be in the room with him or else the door is opened. I've been the one to sit in on some of the sessions with a pastor counseling a woman and I just usually sit in the room with a book or paper I need to work on.

Otherwise, it's just not wise. At all.

 

[donnA]

Male pastors are in the news for violating women almost every week too. Shall we do nothing to prevent that or shall we continue on providing opportunities for temptation?

Then you are suggesting that we violate scripture.
I think the woman should do somehting to prevent it, like,, not having a sexual realtionship with her pastor.

There are churches which have women counselors that are very well trained. Before my wife and I were married she saw a lady in the church who was a professional conselor and had a practice of her own. She was much better equipped than the pastor and had lots of training and degrees in that area. Most pastors have very little or no training in counseling. When I went to seminary it was not required at all. However I did take some classes because I knew that it would be needed.

A woman counselor is one thing, a woman pastor is another. One violates scripture, the other doesn't.
A professional counselor has no guarentee they can counsel from a biblical stand point. And thats why most people go to a pastor for counseling. I would not consider someone who was counseling from a secular stand point(as in thats their education), but would seek soemone biblical, even if they were not educated in a secular university. A pastor is christian and knows scripture.

Some of the women in churches would like nothing better than to trap the pastor into doing something they would like and to do something he should not.

And yet you would punish all women by denying them pastorial counseling.

To think that a pastor can counsel better than a woman counselor if ridiculous. Where are the older women teaching the younger women? How does the pastor fulfill that role?

Again I said nothing against women counselors, but women pastors, which you endorsed, even though it isn't biblical. Why not address what I did say, instead of what I didn't say.

 

[donnA]

Type, backspace, type, backspace...

I typed that it was mostly a hypothetical after you insulted me. I went on to say that it was based slightly on my remembrance of my aunt and uncle----with all the rest of the story being made up by yours truly.

You can defend your insults, but that doesn't make it any less so.

Mostly hypothetical means mostly not real, but it also means some of it is real, making it not exactly hypothetical. Hypothetical would mean totally made up, not mostly.

 

[donnA]

So are you suggesting that young male chaplains counsel women in the military instead of women chaplains?

While what you say is true, many Christians and denominations view ordination as unbiblical. Getting ordained did absolutely nothing for me personally and did nothing to help me make disciples. It was nothing more than a bunch of hoops to go thorugh because it made me look like I was "approved" by some in the denomination. The proof of my ministry is not in the questions I answer, but in the disciples I made. Not one question was about my ministry over the years but strictly about doctrinal issues. I could have answered al of the questions correctly and not ever made one disciple of Jesus Christ and still been ordained.

What I am suggesting is that women can not be pastors.

 

[gb93433]

Then you are suggesting that we violate scripture. I think the woman should do something to prevent it, like,, not having a sexual realtionship with her pastor.

A mature godly woman would not think of such a thing but the churches are full of immaturity today. Just look around and decide for yourself about how many have even made on disciple in their lifetime.

A professional counselor has no guarantee they can counsel from a biblical stand point. And that's why most people go to a pastor for counseling. I would not consider someone who was counseling from a secular stand point(as in thats their education), but would seek someone biblical, even if they were not educated in a secular university. A pastor is christian and knows scripture.

I wish what you said about pastors were true, but it is not. Many are misled by the denominations they are in. There are many counselors who counsel from a biblical standpoint and many who do not just as there are pastors who are the same way. If pastors were so biblical we would not see so many who have discipled few if any new believers. If pastors were so biblical we would not see so much easy believeism in the churches in America today.

And yet you would punish all women by denying them pastoral counseling.

It is not about punishment. Why not do what the early church did instead of flying by the seat of our pants. Who are you to suggest an improvement on what the early church practices were? It is obvious from your post that you really do not know how little preparation most pastors have in the area of counseling. In most cases it is zero unless they purposely decide to go into that area.

Again I said nothing against women counselors, but women pastors, which you endorsed, even though it isn't biblical. Why not address what I did say, instead of what I didn't say.

When did I ever endorse women pastors in any of my posts?

 

[Jim1999]

An open door policy is always best. In my case, my secretary was always present or at least nearby when counselling either women or children, including teens. I am not huggy-buggy and always keep space between myself and the person bing counselled...a desk between us or even sit in different pews in te sanctuary. One can never be too careful in this department.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Spinach]

Mostly hypothetical means mostly not real, but it also means some of it is real, making it not exactly hypothetical. Hypothetical would mean totally made up, not mostly.

You're a real piece of work.

My OP said it was a hypothetical and you implied that I was dishonest. Then I responded to your implication. This is purely a hypothetical, though with a bit of my aunt and uncle in mind, which I clarified. Now, I'm done with you on this thread. You have insulted my integrity and then tried to cover your tracks by using my own word, out of context against me.

For the love of Pete, you could be my Grandma! Granny, is that you?

 

[Jim1999]

When one has nothng to say, it is best saying nothing and that is hypothetically hypothetical but even hypothetical expression can be fully true without convicting an individual. Is the jury still out?

Carry on Spinach, we mostly understand.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

[donnA]

You're a real piece of work.

My OP said it was a hypothetical and you implied that I was dishonest. Then I responded to your implication. This is purely a hypothetical, though with a bit of my aunt and uncle in mind, which I clarified. Now, I'm done with you on this thread. You have insulted my integrity and then tried to cover your tracks by using my own word, out of context against me.

For the love of Pete, you could be my Grandma! Granny, is that you?

You did not say purely hypothetical, but you did say mostly hypothetical. Theres a difference. It isn't my fault you can tell the difference.
Nothing out of context, you said "mostly hypothetical". Maybe you should go back and reread it and you'll see thats what you said.
I said nothing about anyone being dishonest. That, your making up.
I ahve no track to cover, so why would I care to try.

 

[donnA]

A mature godly woman would not think of such a thing but the churches are full of immaturity today. Just look around and decide for yourself about how many have even made on disciple in their lifetime.

and so you would punish all women by denying them being counceled by their pasotr, not some woman who may be secualrly qualified, but may not be biblically qualified.

If pastors were so biblical

I guess there are no biblical pastors?
I guess we could go with an unbiblical woman pastor then couldn't we.

Why not do what the early church did instead

And the scripture would be? What?
Otherwise we're only doing what church fahters did, making it all completely right, which is basically what the RCC claims to have authority. I don't know about you, but biblical authority comes only from scripture. Not what other men do.

Who are you to suggest an improvement on what the early church practices were?

who are you to suggest what men do has some sort of authority over chrisitans, I still see no scripture.


Tom Butler said

Ordination, in my view, is for pastors and deacons.

To which you replied

The United States military does not think so.

I replied

Christ's church is not the United States military, what they 'think' doesn't matter when it comes to christianity.

Now of course the US millitary has authority over what chrisitans believe and do?

you again replied

So are you suggesting that young male chaplains counsel women in the military instead of women chaplains?

me again

male pastors counsel women in the church all the time, or are you suggesting we need female pastors too?

you replied

Male pastors are in the news for violating women almost every week too. Shall we do nothing to prevent that or shall we continue on providing opportunities for temptation?

Are you not endorsing women pastors to counsel other women?
Because it sure sounds like.

If I wanted a secular counselor I'd get one, but I would prefer someone biblical in their counseling, someone who knows scripture and can tell me what God says.