Another verse that blows ME out of the water

I'm ready to deal with Paul on ME. Let's forget about those other stuff. Let's prove ME from Paul. That sounds reasonable to me.

 

This makes sense to me, although I don't believe it adds any credibility to ME.

Les

 

We are off topic. However Judas never believed in Christ in the first place. Christ made that clear during the Last Supper. Peter never stopped believing, even when he denied Christ. What he did was out of a moment of weakness in his flesh, and immediately repented of it afterward.

 

I don't understand what the above has to do with an earthly, millenial kingdom.

Les

 

Yeah, I guess maybe we are.

I think Judas did believe, how else could he have cast out demons, etc.?

But, I still don't understand what that has to do with proving ME.

Les

 

What do you believe probation is?

It proves that we have not argued solely on the books that you or your like are encouraged to omit such as Matthew, Hebrews and/or James.

It can be done and it's been done on this board.

You can assume and conclude whatever you want. You've already made up your mind that those who believe in this, are heretical cult members. I'm not really in the mood to discuss with ya'll today. I'd rather have lemon juice poured in a papercut, listen to fingernails on a chalk board or talk politics with Carpro before I would desire to be on the receiving end of more rudeness and disrespect from you and your team.

 

Jannes and Jambres, two of the "wisemen" of Pharoah could work miracles. Satan works miracles also.
He is the world's greatest imitator, and also has great power.

 

Does it matter? What is the price of tea in China these days? Show me how it is relevant to your case first.

I encourage you to omit such books as Matthew because I am tired of going around in circles about dubious interpretations of parables where you insert or impose doctrine that isn't there. If you want to discuss doctrine do it from doctrinal books. Every major doctrine of the NT can be found in the Pauline epistles. Thus the challenge to you. Besides that, we ask you a simple question and you simply complain about the question. Why? Are we not permitted to ask MEers questions on this board. Do you think that you own the board, set the rules, and have the authority to say what questions can be asked and not be asked? Pretty arrogant aren't you!! Why can't you answer a simple question?

If that is true then why have't you provided a URL to where it has been done. Why can't you do it again? Why do you complain about it. Why can't you just provide an answer instead of complaining about the question for the past two days. This is very tiresome and this thread will close very quckly if this type of complaining carries on. This is a debate forum not a complaint forum! Remember that!

I will assume your doctrine to be false merely on the merits that for two days I have asked one simple question and not one of you have had the intestinal fortitude to come forth and answer it. So let me put it bluntly (knowing that it will be offensive to some)--Are you all cowards or just ignorant? IT is a bogus doctrine that cannot be defended, isn't it?

 

I know this is straying off topic, but...

From Mark 3:

14He appointed twelve—designating them apostles—that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15and to have authority to drive out demons.

and Luke 9:

1When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

Sounds like whatever authority and power Judas had was given him by Jesus, not Satan.

Les

 

It really was a side issue. We can't be sure. I think we were debating whether a Christian could sinreally bad, and Judas came up. There are plenty of other verses to prove that a Christian can die/or be found at Christ's coming, in great sin.

 

In several of these parables there is a "day" when the Lord, Owner, "Boss" (if you will) comes back ane "reckons" with his servants. We contend that the so shall "my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." is a literal warning to the disciples, specifically Peter, but by implication, all of us.

If the time period and the audience are correct, then it is a proof text at least for Tozer's and Dehaan's VERY SERIOUS chastening at the JSOC. It would lend much support to Govett and I.M. Haldeman's Millennial Exclusion.

Being delivered to the tormentors sounds alot like "he will SUFFER loss".

Either way, it's not a salvation passage because we don't get "saved" by forgiving our brother.

lacy

 

If you had scrutinized the sermon you would know why it's relevant.

The current price of tea in China is: ¥ 1.15 with a max bid of ... 70.42 (Source: http://supertart.com/priceofteainchina/index.php)​

Matthew isn't a doctrinal book? Any doctrine in Hebrews?

According to whom, Hermen E. Tic?

Yes you are.

I do not think that I own this board. I do not think that I set the rules. I have no authority here whatsoever.

If I thought such things perhaps I would be.

I can, I choose not to.

If you are sincere about your desire to know, you can go through the myriad of threads and find it. Here's a bit of help...

Watchman Nee - Kingdom Accountability arguments made from the books of Timothy and Revelation
How to defeat the ME heresy - Kingdom Accountability arguments made from the books of Philippians and Romans
Who Appears at the Great White Throne? - Kingdom Accountability arguments made from the books of John, Galatians, & Revelation
Chastened at the JSOC? - Kingdom Accountability arguments made from the books of 2 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, & 2 Peter
Can a believer sin? - Kingdom Accountability arguments made from the books of James, Romans, Revelation, & Acts​

When it comes down to it...I just don't want to. You and npetreley have contracted what I like to call Herbavicious Evansgelitis. It makes the board no funicus.

In the prayer that you'll calm down and be nice again.

If I thought you were going to close this thread, I just don't think I could bear it. Btw...I thought the OP of this thread was regarding 1 John 3:8 and how it blows "ME" out of the water. I have yet to see anyone demonstrate this.

Yes sir.

I suspect in your mind, we are both.

Certainly it can be defended.

 

I know a man that spent 6 years writing a book...
t
h
i
s
t
h
i
c
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(sorry about the bandwidth.) that answers all these questions and even some that nobody on here has even thought to ask. I think that if you really want to 'defeat' ME or 'blow it out of the water' you ought to know all the arguments.

 

Now don't you ever say that we never answer a direct question again.

 

Aah, Lacy. You have proved my point again. You do answer questions, and are quite capablle of doing so. But when it comes to one certain question you have also proved my point: you are totally unable to answer. From that I conclude that ME is a false doctrine, and from that alone. Why such obstinancy in answering a simple question? I suppose I will never understand. It is either pride, or it indeed is a false doctrine. Which are you willing to admit.

 

For those of us who have been gone a couple days, can you repeat the question? I'm curious as to which question they refuse to answer this time. They still haven't answered this one: "By whose righteousness do you enter the kingdom? Yours, or Christ's?" But I suspect you're asking a different one.

 

How would you know whether or not we answered that question? Aren't we all on your ignore list?

 

I may not believe in ME, but I do believe that we can lose rewards based on what we do, and that teachers will be judged more strictly than the rest of us. I wonder what one loses if one spends their life teaching a false gospel of works?

 

There was a time when the words of Jesus held some weight with the followers of Paul, but I guess them were the good ol days.

 

Can you demonstrate from the teachings of Paul (the Pauline epistles) that ME doctrine is a viable doctrine?
In other words, does Paul teach ME? (simply put)
If he does, please show us where it is taught.