Another verse that blows ME out of the water

[psalms109:31]

Praise God

As I said, it is my belief. I do not wish to argue about it.

I did think there would 12 thrones, not 13.

I praise God that God chose to open the door for the Gentiles. The twelve throne's will judge 12 tribes of Israel, we as Gentiles are included when we have heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.

When we walk away from the Lord we have already been condemned.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I've never looked into this issue, so pardon my ignorance, but is there a distinction between the 12 disciples and 12 apostles?

In Matthew 10, the Disciples were named Apostles by the Lord.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It is amazing that ME proponents believe the son of perdition will reign on a throne with Christ and saved people will go to the place prepared for the devil and his messengers.

Talk about a doctrine of devils, Millenial Exclusion is it.

It's amazing to me that you call Jesus a liar!

 

[Hope of Glory]

A disciple is merely someone who embraces the teachings of another. There were hundreds upon hundreds of disciples. A disciple is someone who goes beyond simply believing. In the garden, they sent several hundred guards to take him, and they didn't send that many simply because there were 13 guys there.

But, there were a few who were called apostles: Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

BTW, got any scriptures that denote him as a "false apostle" as compared to a "true apostle"? I guess he tricked Jesus as well, since he had the power to heal and to cast out demons...

Oh, wait! Satan can't cast out satan, and since Judas was unsaved (unbeknownst to Jesus), the Bible simply says that he cast out demons, since no one knew that he really couldn't! Your POV is starting to make a better soap opera now!

 

[Lacy Evans]

It's amazing to me that you call Jesus a liar!

In all fairness, he didn't actually say "Christ is a liar" and that is what we are gripping about when we say that they try to speak for us. I know what you are saying. I see the contradiction, but maybe we should all try to word our arguments in a less inflamatory manner.

If Christ says

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them (once again, 12 apostles), Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And you say that Judas was Excluded, from the kingdom, then there is a problem. Just saying Judas wasn't saved doesn't answer it. So he was called, "Son of perdition". Christ called Peter, "Satan."

What if Peter had died the same night he denied Christ? What would then be the difference between him and Judas?

If Judas ever once believed on Christ, he was saved. If not, he wasn't.

To me, evidence suggests that he was included up until the time he betrayed Christ. In Matthew 26:50 , at the betrayal, Christ calls him "friend".

 

[Hope of Glory]

In all fairness, he didn't actually say "Christ is a liar" and that is what we are gripping about when we say that they try to speak for us. I know what you are saying. I see the contradiction, but maybe we should all try to word our arguments in a less inflamatory manner.

Actually, that's the point I was trying to make, but apparently I failed. I was trying to show the asininity of simply shouting things with no scriptural basis and no basis in truth by demonstration.

I know that there are many contradictions if someone tries to say that Judas was unsaved, and I will get back to that discussion.

My apologies for not making my point better.

But, here's the real poser: This was all a part of God's plan. We know that Judas was a disciple according to scriptures, so he was saved. But, since all this is part of God's plan, how accountable is he? I think he's completely accountable, but not for his betrayal; the only sin he's accused of is theft, and he comitted suicide.

Also, this has interesting implications in studying the book of the Revelation.

 

[blackbird]

Didn't Paul call himself an Apostle----having seen the Lord Jesus

According to the myth of ME----Judas will rule in the Kingdom as part of the 12-----Right????

Paul comes along and includes himself as Apostle---pushing the count up to 13

Ain't but twelve chairs in that ruleing court

I'm afraid that "The Umpire"(Holy Scripture) has called Judas "OUT!!!" and has called the Apostle Paul---"SAFE!!"

Early on in the book of Acts---the Scripture shares with us that Judas had gone to "His place"-----Judas---whom Jesus declared that it would have been better had he never been born---as to have been born and then betrayed Him(Jesus) with a kiss!!!

Judas was never saved---he kissed Heaven's door and went to his place---HELL!!!

 

[joycebuckner]

Didn't Paul call himself an Apostle----having seen the Lord Jesus

According to the myth of ME----Judas will rule in the Kingdom as part of the 12-----Right????

Paul comes along and includes himself as Apostle---pushing the count up to 13

Ain't but twelve chairs in that ruleing court

I'm afraid that "The Umpire"(Holy Scripture) has called Judas "OUT!!!" and has called the Apostle Paul---"SAFE!!"

Early on in the book of Acts---the Scripture shares with us that Judas had gone to "His place"-----Judas---whom Jesus declared that it would have been better had he never been born---as to have been born and then betrayed Him(Jesus) with a kiss!!!

Judas was never saved---he kissed Heaven's door and went to his place---HELL!!!

I do so agree..........He was never saved. Ever

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I agree Judas was as lost as the day is long.


John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Of course to believe in ME you will have to say that a Christian can have Satan enter in to them ......or.......the word entered doesn't really mean ...uhhh entered.


Boy how easy it is to punch holes in the ME heresy. ME falls yet again.:thumbs:

 

[npetreley]

In Matthew 10, the Disciples were named Apostles by the Lord.

That's really obvious now that you point to it. Thanks!

 

[npetreley]

I agree Judas was as lost as the day is long.


John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Of course to believe in ME you will have to say that a Christian can have Satan enter in to them ......or.......the word entered doesn't really mean ...uhhh entered.


Boy how easy it is to punch holes in the ME heresy. ME falls yet again.:thumbs:

Ah, but let's have a look at the etymology of the Greek word translated "entered" and compare that to whether or not aardvarks are clean animals, then plug the results into a parable...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

When Jesus spoke and said, "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. (Matthew 16:23)" He was calling Peter satan. Jesus was adressing the very devil that caused Peter to speak those words he had spoken.

 

[npetreley]

When Jesus spoke and said, "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. (Matthew 16:23)" He was calling Peter satan. Jesus was adressing the very devil that caused Peter to speak those words he had spoken.

Can satan influence someone without possessing them? Was Jesus actually speaking to satan, or what he saying that Peter's sentiment was something originated by satan?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

People believe satan's lies all the time. Look at the many well known preachers who have fell to sin in the media. That does not mean they were possessed by satan, but it certainly shows they fell for his tactics.

I believe that Jesus was speaking to the one to whom the sin originated... satan

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

When Jesus spoke and said, "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. (Matthew 16:23)" He was calling Peter Satan. Jesus was addressing the very devil that caused Peter to speak those words he had spoken.

Why is this relevant?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Why is this relevant?

I brought out the account of Peter because one of the ME'ers stated that Jesus called Peter satan. I do not believe Jesus was calling Peter satan, but was speaking to the force behind the words that Peter had spoke.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I brought out the account of Peter because one of the ME'ers stated that Jesus called Peter satan. I do not believe Jesus was calling Peter satan, but was speaking to the force behind the words that Peter had spoke.

I see.:thumbs:

 

[npetreley]

People believe satan's lies all the time. Look at the many well known preachers who have fell to sin in the media. That does not mean they were possessed by satan, but it certainly shows they fell for his tactics.

I believe that Jesus was speaking to the one to whom the sin originated... satan

This is how I understand this passage, too.

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, based on works, eh?

Oh, wait, SFIC is honest enough to admit that spiritual salvation is works-based in a backloaded way.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HoG, your docrine is HoGwash