Answer this question and you will understand OSAS

[glfredrick]

I'll throw a little monkey wrench into this one

Acts 17... 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

Two greek words for children, huios and teknon. We are all teknon (above passage), but only believers are huios.

You have done a nice job of trying to make a clear text say something that it does not say, for IT does not mention children at all. Amy did, but that is not the verse at hand.

What of the FACT that we are not born of the will of man, but only of God? Derail that...

About the FACT that we are all "His offspring" that is true, because of creation, but that is not precisely what John was speaking about when he talked about those born again as believers.

Monkey wrench to the face, dude...

 

[The Biblicist]

I'll throw a little monkey wrench into this one

Acts 17... 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

Two greek words for children, huios and teknon. We are all teknon (above passage), but only believers are huios.

Paul is speaking about the NATURAL relationship of mankind with God in regard to direct creative source. The waters and earth brought forth all other living Creatures but man was directly brought forth by God.

Hence, in regard to NATURAL source we are all "children" of God as God is the direct source of the origin of mankind. However, in regard to being children by new birth - no lost person is a child (tecknia or huios) of God.

 

[webdog]

You have done a nice job of trying to make a clear text say something that it does not say, for IT does not mention children at all. Amy did, but that is not the verse at hand.

Hardly. Who was Paul speaking to? Pagans. What are offspring? Clearly you are the king of semantics on this board!

What of the FACT that we are not born of the will of man, but only of God? Derail that...

What is there to derail? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please follow along.

About the FACT that we are all "His offspring" that is true, because of creation, but that is not precisely what John was speaking about when he talked about those born again as believers.

Again...what are offspring? Can you have an offspring that is not your child? I realize only believers are given the rights of sonship.

Monkey wrench to the face, dude...

:laugh: are you 12?

 

[glfredrick]

Hardly. Who was Paul speaking to? Pagans. What are offspring? Clearly you are the king of semantics on this board!
What is there to derail? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please follow along.
Again...what are offspring? Can you have an offspring that is not your child? I realize only believers are given the rights of sonship.
:laugh: are you 12?

I guess you got so carried up by your own seeminly wise response to Amy above that you neglected to notice that she was citing John 1. She then made a brief statement about us being God's children, which you took and ran into a totally different conversation, per your normal tendency when you cannot stand the point being made.

The rest of your response? Typical.

 

[steaver]

Actually, my friend did have a personal relationship with Jesus.

And about the example with you wife: Yes, she is your wife, but you have the freedom to leave her and divorce her, at which point she would no longer be your wife. In the same way, believers have the freedom to turn their backs on God and reject their salvation.

What God has joined together, let no man put assunder. Even if you divorce your wife according to man's law, in God's eyes she is still your wife until death.

 

[steaver]

I'll throw a little monkey wrench into this one

Acts 17... 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

Two greek words for children, huios and teknon. We are all teknon (above passage), but only believers are huios.

Here the KJB is accurate to translate this as "offspring" as all mankind is God's "creation" created in the image of God. Most translations miss the mark on this one and translate it as "children" which is not in and of itself totally in error for the context helps clarify, but "offspring" is most accurate as to not lead anyone into thinking that all are God's children in the NT teaching of the term "children of God (believers)" verses "children of the devil (unbelievers)".

 

[steaver]

Actually, my friend did have a personal relationship with Jesus.

.

So here is what you are telling me;

Your friend has a personal knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that Jesus was living inside him, and now your friend doesn't believe that which he had personal knowledge of is an absolute truth???? That's like saying I can feel my heart beating, but I don't believe that I have a heart! Impossible!

 

[DaChaser1]

So here is what you are telling me;

Your friend has a personal knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that Jesus was living inside him, and now your friend doesn't believe that which he had personal knowledge of is an absolute truth???? That's like saying I can feel my heart beating, but I don't believe that I have a heart! Impossible!

My sheep hear my voice, and will follow me as the true shepherd!
they will not listen to other strange voices


Was jesus telling the truth or not?

 

[steaver]

A few more questions to help you understand OSAS;

Are born-again believers NEW creations IN Christ?

Is this NEW creation Spirit giving birth to spirit and the two (Jesus Christ and the believer) becoming ONE?

Does this NEW creation "personally" KNOW Jesus Christ is now IN them?

Like I said before, unless one understands "born-again" one cannot understand OSAS. Can a Lepard change it's spots? A born of God believer is a NEW CREATION! Now you are a child of God! Will you be a good child, a bad child, a faithless child? Nevertheless, ALWAYS a Child of the Father! Praise Him! And teach God's children to obey that it may go spiritually well with them while on this earth. For we live in a fallen evil wicked world.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

What God has joined together, let no man put assunder. Even if you divorce your wife according to man's law, in God's eyes she is still your wife until death.

Oh really? And maybe I shouldn't mention this because it is too personal and I can't elaborate. But I know of a case where this was definitely not true.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

So here is what you are telling me;

Your friend has a personal knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that Jesus was living inside him, and now your friend doesn't believe that which he had personal knowledge of is an absolute truth???? That's like saying I can feel my heart beating, but I don't believe that I have a heart! Impossible!

That's what I'm saying, and your analogy is terrible and doesn't work.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

How are believers kept unto salvation?

a) by the power of God

b) by the power of self

c) by the power of God plus self

Here is a passage of scripture to help you with your answer; 1 Peter chp 1......

(1) "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"

(2) "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

(3) "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, "

(4) "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,"

(5) "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time"

I actually like this one. To me it means that, yes, we are indeed kept by the power of God, but the way we are kept is through faith, and if we lose that faith or reject it once received, we are no longer kept. God compels no one to come to Him, and He compels no one to stay.

 

[steaver]

I actually like this one. To me it means that, yes, we are indeed kept by the power of God, but the way we are kept is through faith, and if we lose that faith or reject it once received, we are no longer kept. God compels no one to come to Him, and He compels no one to stay.

No, no brother :smilewinkgrin: saving faith is part of the NEW creation. You are kept by God through that faith! I'm sure you could testify how many times you couldn't explain why you believed or kept on believing after your rebirth. I know I can. That is God keeping me! And you!

 

[webdog]

I guess you got so carried up by your own seeminly wise response to Amy above that you neglected to notice that she was citing John 1. She then made a brief statement about us being God's children, which you took and ran into a totally different conversation, per your normal tendency when you cannot stand the point being made.

The rest of your response? Typical.

You're not following along real well. She stated "You will never find God speaking of the unsaved as His children." I then replied with this thought in mind, which was in the exact SAME direction (but of course to you it is a priority to disagree with me on anything just for the sake of disagreement). I got her point, in fact I embrace it. Only believers are afforded the rights of adoption as a son. I even admitted just that. Oh...and it is quite funny how you do not engage in anything stated, just resort to the ad hominem.

 

[DaChaser1]

Oh really? And maybe I shouldn't mention this because it is too personal and I can't elaborate. But I know of a case where this was definitely not true.

just curious as to where you find support for that in the Bible , as jesus did give "out" for a biblical divorce and remarriage!

 

[DHK]

I actually like this one. To me it means that, yes, we are indeed kept by the power of God, but the way we are kept is through faith, and if we lose that faith or reject it once received, we are no longer kept. God compels no one to come to Him, and He compels no one to stay.

Please explain your understanding of John 5:24.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Please explain your understanding of John 5:24.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I believe what it says. But I also hold that a person can stop believing.

 

[glfredrick]

I believe what it says. But I also hold that a person can stop believing.

So? :wavey:

How does that mean that they are "un-born," "un-adopted," or "un-justified?"

Seeing as how WE do none of those things, it would seem that our reaction might be of no real consequence before God.

Of course, there is an out for you... That you are speaking of mere human religion, pointed toward the correct God, of course, but mere religious zeal only. No action of God involved -- and with that, also of course, no true salvation, so the person who walks away was never actually "arrived" in the first place.

I'm beginning to wonder if that is not the case... Anyone who has tasted and seen that God is good -- been indwelt by the Holy Spirit -- and who has an authentic born-again-from-above experience backed up by fruit of the Spirit in their life can hardly turn away from what they KNOW is true.

 

[DHK]

I believe what it says. But I also hold that a person can stop believing.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:24 "Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (WEB)

Note: The person who believed:
1. presently has eternal life.
2. will not come into condemnation in the future.
3. has already passed from spiritual death into spiritual life.

One cannot go backwards. One cannot go from life back to death.
One cannot come back into condemnation once that promise has already been made by the Lord Jesus Christ.
If one presently has eternal life, and eternal life should end at any point, then that "eternal" would become "temporary" and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar.

 

[glfredrick]

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:24 "Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (WEB)

Note: The person who believed:
1. presently has eternal life.
2. will not come into condemnation in the future.
3. has already passed from spiritual death into spiritual life.

One cannot go backwards. One cannot go from life back to death.
One cannot come back into condemnation once that promise has already been made by the Lord Jesus Christ.
If one presently has eternal life, and eternal life should end at any point, then that "eternal" would become "temporary" and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar.

And, as I said, the only alternative is that they never passed into life to begin with.