Answer this question and you will understand OSAS

[DaChaser1]

And, as I said, the only alternative is that they never passed into life to begin with.

read in some theology book , honestly can't rememer who authored it, that death of Jesus brought general atonement to all, in that all wivew have an eternity, but that specific atonement provoded to amke sure his own get eternal life, rest eternal death still!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:24 "Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (WEB)

Note: The person who believed:
1. presently has eternal life.
2. will not come into condemnation in the future.
3. has already passed from spiritual death into spiritual life.

One cannot go backwards. One cannot go from life back to death.
One cannot come back into condemnation once that promise has already been made by the Lord Jesus Christ.
If one presently has eternal life, and eternal life should end at any point, then that "eternal" would become "temporary" and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar.

Of course I disagree, based on what I believe to be an essential aspect of God's character, and scripture which I believe supports my position.

We'll never see eye-to-eye on this, so there's not much point in my continuing to discuss it. But I probably will.

 

[steaver]

Of course I disagree, based on what I believe to be an essential aspect of God's character, and scripture which I believe supports my position.

We'll never see eye-to-eye on this, so there's not much point in my continuing to discuss it. But I probably will.

What is that essential aspect of God's character that is holding you back from believing OSAS is true?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

What is that essential aspect of God's character that is holding you back from believing OSAS is true?

Freedom, brother!

 

[DHK]

Of course I disagree, based on what I believe to be an essential aspect of God's character, and scripture which I believe supports my position.

We'll never see eye-to-eye on this, so there's not much point in my continuing to discuss it. But I probably will.

I just gave you Scripture (John 5:24) which delineates a three-fold promise of Christ how one can never lose their salvation. To deny this would attack the character of God. Any Scripture you provide would deny the Scripture given.

 

[Winman]

Hardly. Who was Paul speaking to? Pagans. What are offspring? Clearly you are the king of semantics on this board!
What is there to derail? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please follow along.
Again...what are offspring? Can you have an offspring that is not your child? I realize only believers are given the rights of sonship.
:laugh: are you 12?

Yes, and God called infants who were sacrificed to idols "my children" and said they were "borne unto me".

Eze 16:20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

I believe we start out as God's children, but we can become children of the devil by choice.

 

[The Biblicist]

Freedom, brother!

Hasn't the child of God trusted in Christ to save him from his sins (Mt. 1:21)? What agency in man would deliver him into sin? If God is unable to save man from the very agency that would deliver him to sin then we must ask the question is God the Savior from sin at all and who then is the real savior from sin if it is not in God's hands but in your hands all along?

How does Philippians 2:13 play a part in your salvaiton and your theory of salvation?

"For it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE"

Would not that very statement be oxymoronic according to your "freedom" theory?

 

[Winman]

The verse I believe proves OSAS is John 6:37.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus said whoever comes to him he will in no wise (which means under any circumstance) cast out.

I came to Jesus in my heart. I know I am saved because he promised in no wise to cast me out. Jesus cannot lie, he cannot break his word or his promise.

Jesus didn't say you have to come over and over again. You only have to come once. He gives you life that very instant, you have passed from death to life and shall not come into condemnation.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus gives us eternal life and says we shall "never" perish. If a person could walk away from salvation, then this verse could not be true, a person who once believed could certainly perish.

 

[steaver]

Freedom, brother!

OSAS does not negate freewill for God has given mankind a choice, believe and ask to be regenerated (key word) or don't believe and stay spiritually dead and lost.

What you are missing is the "act of God" upon a person AFTER they accept God's offer to save (regenerate) them. Nobody, not one soul who has been regenerated has any desire at all to change their mind and choose hell instead. For God has given them a NEW heart, a heart that is spirit of His Spirit. Two become one! New creation!

Like I always say, understand born-again and you will understand OSAS. Then all of those sanctification and warning passages will become perfectly clear and make perfect sense.

 

[steaver]

The verse I believe proves OSAS is John 6:37.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus said whoever comes to him he will in no wise (which means under any circumstance) cast out.

I came to Jesus in my heart. I know I am saved because he promised in no wise to cast me out. Jesus cannot lie, he cannot break his word or his promise.

Jesus didn't say you have to come over and over again. You only have to come once. He gives you life that very instant, you have passed from death to life and shall not come into condemnation.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus gives us eternal life and says we shall "never" perish. If a person could walk away from salvation, then this verse could not be true, a person who once believed could certainly perish.

One of dozens! :thumbs:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I just gave you Scripture (John 5:24) which delineates a three-fold promise of Christ how one can never lose their salvation. To deny this would attack the character of God. Any Scripture you provide would deny the Scripture given.

And any scripture I provide that refuted the scripture you provide would have you replying that your scripture trumps my scripture.

And 'round and 'round, and up and down, and back and forth, and hither and yon, and on and on........

 

[DHK]

And any scripture I provide that refuted the scripture you provide would have you replying that your scripture trumps my scripture.

And 'round and 'round, and up and down, and back and forth, and hither and yon, and on and on........

That is why I will stick with just John 5:24, and the three irrefutable truths that it presents.
Furthermore, as I mentioned, from John 5:24 we learn that eternal life is eternal and the loss thereof would make eternal only temporary. So you are faced with a conundrum. What is the definition of eternal? Can eternal become temporary? If it can then Jesus Christ becomes a liar doesn't he?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

That is why I will stick with just John 5:24, and the three irrefutable truths that it presents.
Furthermore, as I mentioned, from John 5:24 we learn that eternal life is eternal and the loss thereof would make eternal only temporary. So you are faced with a conundrum. What is the definition of eternal? Can eternal become temporary? If it can then Jesus Christ becomes a liar doesn't he?

No, of course not.

But don't get me started again on the true meaning of the word translated "eternal".

I'll get accused of being a heretic and told I'm going to hell.

 

[DHK]

No, of course not.

But don't get me started again on the true meaning of the word translated "eternal".

I'll get accused of being a heretic and told I'm going to hell.

Revelation 20:10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
--The definition of eternal should be defined well enough in the above statement.

 

[The Biblicist]

Hasn't the child of God trusted in Christ to save him from his sins (Mt. 1:21)? What agency in man would deliver him into sin? If God is unable to save man from the very agency that would deliver him to sin then we must ask the question is God the Savior from sin at all and who then is the real savior from sin if it is not in God's hands but in your hands all along?

How does Philippians 2:13 play a part in your salvaiton and your theory of salvation?

"For it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE"

Would not that very statement be oxymoronic according to your "freedom" theory?

Never got an response to the above post!

 

[steaver]

just curious as to where you find support for that in the Bible , as jesus did give "out" for a biblical divorce and remarriage!

Moses was given permission from the Lord in the OT to grant divorces due to the hardness of hearts. We Christians live under the NT covenant which states....

"And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife." (1Cr7:10-11)

Christians are commanded not to depart, but if one does depart, we are not given any liberty to remarry another. We are to remain unmarried or reconcile to your spouse.

By permission Paul states (not the Lord) that if a Christian has found themselves married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever departs, this Christian is not bound to this marriage and therefore could remarry, a believer of course (2Cr6:14).

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him............But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace." (1Cr7)

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Never got an response to the above post!

I'll try to get to it.

Now I'm trying to fight off insults and attacks from a Romanist extremist.

On second thought, let me try now; I might not get back to it.

Of course God works in us to that purpose, but we have the freedom to resist, rebel, and turn away.

Maybe more later -- don't know.

 

[glfredrick]

I'll try to get to it.

Now I'm trying to fight off insults and attacks from a Romanist extremist.

On second thought, let me try now; I might not get back to it.

Of course God works in us to that purpose, but we have the freedom to resist, rebel, and turn away.

Maybe more later -- don't know.

Why fight them off? You seem to want to include some of their doctrine in your own cafeteria-line theology.

 

[The Biblicist]

I'll try to get to it.

Now I'm trying to fight off insults and attacks from a Romanist extremist.

On second thought, let me try now; I might not get back to it.

Of course God works in us to that purpose, but we have the freedom to resist, rebel, and turn away.

Maybe more later -- don't know.

The text does not say God works in us for that purpose. The Text says that God works in both "TO WILL" and "TO DO" of his good pleasure.

However, answer the former part of my post first. When you can.

 

[The Biblicist]

No, of course not.

But don't get me started again on the true meaning of the word translated "eternal".

I'll get accused of being a heretic and told I'm going to hell.

Have you ever examined the constituent parts of the Greek term "aionios" translated "forever"? It is composed of three Greek words. Look at the meaning of those three words and then read them together.