Anti-intellectualism

[Revmitchell]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

 

[ktn4eg]

I don't particularly notice it in our church ( www.lighthouseministries.org ), but then we're not in a rural setting either.

OTOH, in some cases it probably is more prevalent in rural areas---especially if the congregation(s) is/are predominately in the older age brackets.

 

[evangelist6589]

I notice it big time, especially on Facebook. In the present church I attend it seems like the people only will read books that the pastor recommends. If he boasts about Paul Chappell but ignores David Platt and Francis Chan, guess who gets read? If I suggest another book my suggestions get ignored. Its like pastor worship if you ask me.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Don't see it at all. I live -- and my church is on -- the cusp of a suburban/rural interface on the southwest edge of the Kansas City metro area. Our church is dynamic in that it ministers to both populations exceptionally well, as most of the staff has seminary background but grew up in "small town America." We address contemporary society and its concerns quite well, in my opinion, without allowing such discussions to enter in to defining who we are.

 

[Greektim]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

YES... it's called fundamentalism

 

[Tom Butler]

This thread triggered the memory of a story told by the first president of Mid-Continent College (now University) in Mayfield, Kentucky. It illustrates the topic well.
Dr. O. C. Markham made a habit of attending his own church on Sunday mornings, and visiting in other churches on Sunday evening to show the Mid-Continent flag and get to know the folks better.

One Sunday night, he learned that the pastor of the church he was visiting was away. The substitute preacher he also knew had little use for education and less use for educated preachers. He felt that the more education you had, the more liberal you were likely to be.

He also knew that the preacher would probably take a shot at him, and sure enough, he did.

"Before I start tonight I want to say that I'm ignert, and I thank God I'm ignert. And I pray that God will make me ignerter and ignerter."
(He meant ignorant, of course.)

"Awright, open your Bibles to the book of Daniel. Tonight, I'm going to preach on old King Kneebuck-had-a-razor."

Dr. Markham said he knew that the preacher meant King Nebuchadnezzar; and that God had answered that preacher's prayer. He was getting ignerter and ignerter.

 

[Dr. Bob]

We have to be careful not to "lord" education/study over folks from other churches. Our people want hour-long sermons. They want doctrine. They want to go beyond (but, praise God, never forget) John 3:16 and understand the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27)

One of the "ingerant" pastors in town (a drop out of Bible college but looked upon as a guru of understanding the Bible by his sycophants) said his whole ministry was to get folks saved, get them baptized and teach them to get other saved and baptized and teach them to get others saved and baptized.

When I asked him where he found that in the Bible, he looked askew. I asked him to get his KJV (whichever revision he thought perfect) and actually read what it said. He acted like I was attacking him and hating his "soul wining".

Can see why folks left that mindset and going deeper and deeper into God's Word for holiness and godliness and ALL things Jesus taught, not just a couple of surface area.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

We have to be careful not to "lord" education/study over folks from other churches. Our people want hour-long sermons. They want doctrine. They want to go beyond (but, praise God, never forget) John 3:16 and understand the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27)

One of the "ingerant" pastors in town (a drop out of Bible college but looked upon as a guru of understanding the Bible by his sycophants) said his whole ministry was to get folks saved, get them baptized and teach them to get other saved and baptized and teach them to get others saved and baptized.

When I asked him where he found that in the Bible, he looked askew. I asked him to get his KJV (whichever revision he thought perfect) and actually read what it said. He acted like I was attacking him and hating his "soul wining".

Can see why folks left that mindset and going deeper and deeper into God's Word for holiness and godliness and ALL things Jesus taught, not just a couple of surface area.

Great post, Bob. I've known men like him. While the ministry concept sounds good, it loses something in the translation. Thanks.

 

[Aaron]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

I think it's because higher education in the last 100 years has simply been a concerted effort to impose Darwinism, Marxism and other destructive, faithless and liberal philosophies.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I agree with the quote below.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.


Galileo Galilei

 

[go2church]

YES... it's called fundamentalism

Bravo, my thoughts exactly

 

[MB]

We have to be careful not to "lord" education/study over folks from other churches. Our people want hour-long sermons. They want doctrine. They want to go beyond (but, praise God, never forget) John 3:16 and understand the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27)

One of the "ingerant" pastors in town (a drop out of Bible college but looked upon as a guru of understanding the Bible by his sycophants) said his whole ministry was to get folks saved, get them baptized and teach them to get other saved and baptized and teach them to get others saved and baptized.

When I asked him where he found that in the Bible, he looked askew. I asked him to get his KJV (whichever revision he thought perfect) and actually read what it said. He acted like I was attacking him and hating his "soul wining".

Can see why folks left that mindset and going deeper and deeper into God's Word for holiness and godliness and ALL things Jesus taught, not just a couple of surface area.

You write as though it disgust you that anyone would offer people the chance to know about Christ. What is wrong with doing exactly that Bob?
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MB

 

[saturneptune]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

My church is in a rural setting, and most of the congregation is above 70. I basically agree with the balanced approach of Dr. Bob. Every local congregation needs members and leaders who have had higher education in Scripture to teach others. That does not mean everyone. Most church members have occupations that are not in the Christian vocation. It is the responsibility of every member to get into the Word and learn, not sit on their behinds for decades and half listen to a sermon once a week without any effort to grow. These are usually the same members that do not participate in ministries of the church, tithe, or show up Sunday or Wednesday night. They are "dead weight" of the local congregation. The years pass, they do nothing, then at some point in time say there are too old to participate in ministries. When the "dead weight" becomes the majority, the church starts its downhill slide.

At the same time, those who have been to seminary or other Christian college are charged with teaching the congregation and fostering an atmosphere to encourage members to stay in the Word and be a part of church life.

In a healthy local church, there should be no gap between the two groups. They should be a team.

 

[Aaron]

Maybe a better title for the thread would be "Anti-elitism."

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

I see it all over the place. I mean, people like Joel Osteen and Rick Warren have built entire ministries on it.

I've talked to people who were genuinely shocked when they heard about some of the classes and the training our church has.

I've met some who actually condemn us for it. So it does happen. The good news, though, is that those people to marginalize themselves and segregate themselves to places like onlinebaptist, where you can cut the ignorance and sheer stupidity with a knife.

The other good news is that most Christians aren't ignorant by choice but because pop-Christianity has invaded and shaped the churched to the point that they really don't know their own intellectual heritage and are usually pretty eager to learn when given a chance.

Incidentally, "rural" has nothing to do with it. We're out in the middle of nowhere and we're in talks with one of the better known seminaries in the country to establish an extension program.

 

[Revmitchell]

OK this tread is not intended to bash other pastors or to be a liberal tool to demonize fundamentalists. Use a little discipline and reign in the temptation to tear down specific groups of people.

 

[salzer mtn]

Act's 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, they perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. You mean the Lord would call and use those ignorant, unlearned men over the Pharisees. 1 Cor 1:26-29 For ye see your calling brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and base things of the world, and things that are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE. I' glad God's way's are above our ways.

 

[go2church]

Fundamentalism need demonizing. Can't think of a group or movement that is more anti intellectual then fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, be it of the Christian, Muslim, Mormon or whatever kind, doesn't want people thinking, they want to tell you what to think. Easy answers, no thinking, everything black and white is where anti intellectualism thrives.

 

[Crabtownboy]

OK this tread is not intended to bash other pastors or to be a liberal tool to demonize fundamentalists. Use a little discipline and reign in the temptation to tear down specific groups of people.

In your opinion, are there some groups that are more anti-intellectual than others?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Fundamentalism need demonizing. Can't think of a group or movement that is more anti intellectual then fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, be it of the Christian, Muslim, Mormon or whatever kind, doesn't want people thinking, they want to tell you what to think. Easy answers, no thinking, everything black and white is where anti intellectualism thrives.

As I type this, I'm looking over to my bookshelf and trying to reconcile your claim with some of the names of the great thinkers and educators and preachers of Christianity who happened to be fundamentalists.

Maybe it's just because I'm one of those stupid fundamentalsts, but when I look at your claim and then look at the names on those books, something just doesn't add up.

Either these guys are just non-fundamentalists masquerading as fundamentalists, or your claim is nonsense.

Granted, I can see how you might get that impression from the geniuses over at OnlineBaptist, but looking at the fundamentalists I know (including one who taught physics and engineering at one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the world), listen to, and read, I just don't see any truth in your claim.