Any here Believe In Biblical annihilation?

[Van]

Pitchback

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell,

Would you care to describe just what torment He may have been in?

Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [him] to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

Would you say that when, they laid [her] in an upper chamber, she was in Sheol/Hades? Why was she able to open her eyes from Sheol/Hades?

As I said, no need to write Luke 16, nor change the subject.

Christ's soul was not left or abandoned in Hades. He was not in torment, He had already paid in full for the sin of the world.

Scripture does not say where the girl's soul went when she died, but Hades including Abraham's Bosom is a possibility. But from wherever it was, when Jesus summoned it, the girl, body and soul awoke.

Nothing in either of these two additional accounts conflicts with Christ's description of the lost being aware they are in torment in Hades shortly after physical death.

 

[Alcott]

Any here Believe In Biblical annihilation?

I do; but only in the sense that every Bible, as well as every other book, is made of materials from the physical earth, so none without exception will survive eternally. The software, per se, will go on.

 

[percho]

As I said, no need to write Luke 16, nor change the subject.

Christ's soul was not left or abandoned in Hades. He was not in torment, He had already paid in full for the sin of the world.

Scripture does not say where the girl's soul went when she died, but Hades including Abraham's Bosom is a possibility. But from wherever it was, when Jesus summoned it, the girl, body and soul awoke.

Nothing in either of these two additional accounts conflicts with Christ's description of the lost being aware they are in torment in Hades shortly after physical death.

I think we should put it to a vote.

I believe Acts 2 verse relative to whether souls in Hades being in torment or not, and I believe Verses from Acts and Luke relative to whether lifting eyes is relative to being resurrected or not, in that souls in Hades and or disembodied spirits can not lift up something they are disembodied of,

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Matt 25:46. 'And these will go into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'

The NKJV translation notwithstanding, the Greek words for 'eternal' and 'everlasting' are the same- Aionios. Therefore if hell is not forever, then neither is heaven.

Steve

The Greek word for eternal is not "aionios".

 

[mandym]

Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166



G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os

From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

LXX related word(s)
H5769 olam

 

[Cypress]

From the link I provided earlier to Hell: Eternal Torment of Annihilation............"It is important to note that the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age." Ancient Greek papyri contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as aionios. What is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words "eternal" or "everlasting" do not accurately render the meaning of aionios, which literally means "age-lasting." In other words, while the Greek aionios expresses perpetuity within limits, the English "eternal" or "everlasting" denotes unlimited duration."

 

[Michael Wrenn]

From the link I provided earlier to Hell: Eternal Torment of Annihilation............"It is important to note that the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age." Ancient Greek papyri contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as aionios. What is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words "eternal" or "everlasting" do not accurately render the meaning of aionios, which literally means "age-lasting." In other words, while the Greek aionios expresses perpetuity within limits, the English "eternal" or "everlasting" denotes unlimited duration."

Thank you for the accuracy.

There is no way that aion/aionios means eternal. We get our English word "eon" from "aion"; an eon is an age, and an age is not equal to an eternity. This is readily apparent from the Greek and from logic. An age is of limited duration -- it may be a long period of time, and an indefinite one, but in no way is an age equal to an eternity. An age has an end; eternity doesn't. Aion/eon/age does not mean eternal or eternity. Those who have translated it thusly have committed a gross and deliberate error and mistranslation, and I say they had an agenda for doing so.

And again, Jesus referred to divine judgment as "aionios kolasis", meaning age-long chastisement. Divine judgment is reformative, not vindictive. Again, the word used in the original Greek New Testament is kolasis, which means a beneficial chastening.

"Proportionality also ensures that any judgments upon a soul by God must be temporary and limited, since the sin that caused those judgments to ensue was also limited. This is a basic, Biblical teaching about divine justice -- and it is also common sense. The word used in the original New Testament to express this limited judgment is aionios, which means lasting for a distinct age or period of time with a beginning and an end. It is the Greek word from which we derive the English word eon, and it was used in the time of Jesus to refer to a period lasting anywhere from the length of a man's life to a thousand years. There is no such thing as "eternal" hell, despite what many Christians have been led to believe based on mistranslations of the Bible."

 

[Michael Wrenn]

"Jesus spoke of an "age of pruning" or "temporary period of correction" (kolasin aionion) as opposed to pagan writers who wrote about "eternal punishment" (aidios timoria). Different words! Different meaning! The word used unanimously by Greek writers to signify "endlessness" is "aidios". Clearly Jesus would have used "aidos" had He meant 'endless'. There were however, sects in Jesus day who did believe in eternal punishment. See the following quote from chapter 3 The Origins of Endless Punishment by Hanson in 1899.

For example, the Pharisees, according to Josephus, regarded the penalty of sin as torment without end, and they stated the doctrine in unambiguous terms. They called it eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment), while our Lord called the punishment of sin aionion kolasin (age-long chastisement).

By the way...the words "eirgmos aidios" or eternal imprisonment and "timorion adialeipton", endless torment, never appear anywhere in the Greek text of the New Testament."

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Interestingly enough, the Bible does indeed teach that annihilation is not an option for the unbeliever after death.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In all translations prior to the 1611 KJB, the Greek word "kolasis" was translated as "torment" or "pain". For some reason, it was defined as "punishment" in the 1611. (possibly because of being translated from the Latin Vulgate?)

Eternal Life
Everlasting punishment/torment/pain.

The words "eternal" and "everlasting" are from the same Greek word, "aionios". If everlasting only means temporary, then eternal also only means temporary.

Believers only get temporary life? That wouldn't make sense, now would it? No, believers have been given a life without end.

Covnersly, the unbelievers are given torment and pain without end.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Interestingly enough, the Bible does indeed teach that annihilation is not an option for the unbeliever after death.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In all translations prior to the 1611 KJB, the Greek word "kolasis" was translated as "torment" or "pain". For some reason, it was defined as "punishment" in the 1611. (possibly because of being translated from the Latin Vulgate?)

Eternal Life
Everlasting punishment/torment/pain.

The words "eternal" and "everlasting" are from the same Greek word, "aionios". If everlasting only means temporary, then eternal also only means temporary.

Believers only get temporary life? That wouldn't make sense, now would it? No, believers have been given a life without end.

Covnersly, the unbelievers are given torment and pain without end.

As has been shown, that is a pagan doctrine not taught by Jesus and not in scripture.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Interestingly enough, the Bible does indeed teach that annihilation is not an option for the unbeliever after death.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In all translations prior to the 1611 KJB, the Greek word "kolasis" was translated as "torment" or "pain". For some reason, it was defined as "punishment" in the 1611. (possibly because of being translated from the Latin Vulgate?)

Eternal Life
Everlasting punishment/torment/pain.

The words "eternal" and "everlasting" are from the same Greek word, "aionios". If everlasting only means temporary, then eternal also only means temporary.

Believers only get temporary life? That wouldn't make sense, now would it? No, believers have been given a life without end.

Covnersly, the unbelievers are given torment and pain without end.

Also, let me ask you this: Before Lucifer got kicked out of heaven, did he have "eternal life"?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

"Jesus spoke of an "age of pruning" or "temporary period of correction" (kolasin aionion) as opposed to pagan writers who wrote about "eternal punishment" (aidios timoria). Different words! Different meaning! The word used unanimously by Greek writers to signify "endlessness" is "aidios". Clearly Jesus would have used "aidos" had He meant 'endless'. There were however, sects in Jesus day who did believe in eternal punishment. See the following quote from chapter 3 The Origins of Endless Punishment by Hanson in 1899.

For example, the Pharisees, according to Josephus, regarded the penalty of sin as torment without end, and they stated the doctrine in unambiguous terms. They called it eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment), while our Lord called the punishment of sin aionion kolasin (age-long chastisement).

By the way...the words "eirgmos aidios" or eternal imprisonment and "timorion adialeipton", endless torment, never appear anywhere in the Greek text of the New Testament."

You may want to enrol in a Greek study course. "aidos" is not the word for 'endless,' it is the word for 'shamefacedness.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You may want to enrol in a Greek study course. "aidos" is not the word for 'endless,' it is the word for 'shamefacedness.

Ha ha. Those are not my words; I got them from a reference source, hence my putting them in quotation marks.

Lots of twisting going on in this thread, trying to make the scriptures say and mean what they don't -- and the original Greek, as well.

I hate to do it, but if this continues, I'll have to cue up the Chubby Checker video again.

But while I'm at it, let me correct you:

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=126

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I have to go to bed now. More jousting tomorrow, God willing.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The Greek Word that was used in Matthew 26 was not aidos, it was aionios.

Here is the definition of aionios:

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=166 it

aionios means without beginning or ending, without beginning, without end.

You do realize that without end means endless, do you not?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

aidios is only used twice in the New Testament. Both times are speaking of durability

Everlasting power (Romans 1:20)
Everlasting chains.(Jude 1:6)

When everlasting/eternal is used in describing the life given a Believer, the word aionios is used. aionios signifies without beginning or without ending, or both.

In the case of the Believer, it means without end. Believers are given a life that has no end.

Unbelievers will be in torment and pain for all eternity.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The Greek Word that was used in Matthew 26 was not aidos, it was aionios.

Here is the definition of aionios:

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=166 it

aionios means without beginning or ending, without beginning, without end.

You do realize that without end means endless, do you not?

Aion is where we get the English word eon, meaning an age. Anywhere "age" is used, in scripture and elsewhere, it does not mean eternal. To maintain that it does is either being dishonest or willfully ignorant.

An example of Jesus's use of the word is in Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age”, the word “age” being a translation of aion. Rendering aion to indicate eternity in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”.

Consider how Matthew 25:46 is rendered in Young's Literal Translation:

"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Here "aionios" is rendered in its literal meaning, as opposed to those translations which falsely render it "eternal" or "everlasting".

You cannot get around the fact that Jesus referred to divine judgment as "aionios kolasis", meaning age-long chastisement.

I'm getting closer to cuing up Chubby.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I can't get over how some Christians seem to take delight in a most vengeful manner the idea that people will be fried forever.

This does not accord with either a just or merciful God or with the clear teachings of Jesus, as I have shown.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

We didn't write the Word of God. God declared an eternity of torment for the unbeliever, not us.

We do not take delight in that torment.

 

[Yeshua1]

I can't get over how some Christians seem to take delight in a most vengeful manner the idea that people will be fried forever.

This does not accord with either a just or merciful God or with the clear teachings of Jesus, as I have shown.

God is Holy, Judge, so He MUST punish sin !

NOT because He loves doing that to people, but that He must do the right thing at all times!

And Gopd is right in his judgements, as does seem to be the concept of God punishing each one on individual basis, as some get few stripes, others many!