Any here Believe In Biblical annihilation?

[Steadfast Fred]

Aion is where we get the English word eon, meaning an age. Anywhere "age" is used, in scripture and elsewhere, it does not mean eternal. To maintain that it does is either being dishonest or willfully ignorant.

An example of Jesus's use of the word is in Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age”, the word “age” being a translation of aion. Rendering aion to indicate eternity in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”.

Consider how Matthew 25:46 is rendered in Young's Literal Translation:

"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Here "aionios" is rendered in its literal meaning, as opposed to those translations which falsely render it "eternal" or "everlasting".

You cannot get around the fact that Jesus referred to divine judgment as "aionios kolasis", meaning age-long chastisement.

I'm getting closer to cuing up Chubby.

Rendering aionios in Matthew 25:46 as age ending would result in horrible
theology.

If aionios means that it will end one day, then the Believer has no hope whatsoever.

What a sad thing to hope for aionios life only to have it end one day.

 

[Van]

Pitchback

From the link I provided earlier to Hell: Eternal Torment of Annihilation............"It is important to note that the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age." Ancient Greek papyri contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as aionios. What is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words "eternal" or "everlasting" do not accurately render the meaning of aionios, which literally means "age-lasting." In other words, while the Greek aionios expresses perpetuity within limits, the English "eternal" or "everlasting" denotes unlimited duration."

I have a simple question, based on John 3:16. I expect you know it by heart. If a person does not perish, then they would live for an unlimited duration. Therefore the word used to describe eternal life means, at least in this context, life with God of unlimited duration. Therefore eternal punishment, the same word, could mean using the same meaning of the word, that the punishment has consequences of unlimited duration. QED

The only thing that is debatable, is the duration of the torment, because the smoke of the torment rising forever might not mean the torment is on going, only the consequence.

On the other hand, recompense for our wicked deeds logically would have a limited duration, whatever is sufficient to provide God's perfect justice, and so it is possible, that the fiery torment in the afterlife lasts for a limited duration followed by annihilation, providing perfect justice.

 

[Cypress]

I have a simple question, based on John 3:16. I expect you know it by heart. If a person does not perish, then they would live for an unlimited duration. Therefore the word used to describe eternal life means, at least in this context, life with God of unlimited duration. Therefore eternal punishment, the same word, could mean using the same meaning of the word, that the punishment has consequences of unlimited duration. QED

The only thing that is debatable, is the duration of the torment, because the smoke of the torment rising forever might not mean the torment is on going, only the consequence.

On the other hand, recompense for our wicked deeds logically would have a limited duration, whatever is sufficient to provide God's perfect justice, and so it is possible, that the fiery torment in the afterlife lasts for a limited duration followed by annihilation, providing perfect justice.

No arguement from me.....annihilation is a pretty permanent punishment. If something else is required, i.e. torment, I am confident God will mete it out in perfect measure.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Since the Greek word kolasis originally was translated as pain or torment, I'd have to say annihilation is not punishment at all.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

We didn't write the Word of God. God declared an eternity of torment for the unbeliever, not us.

We do not take delight in that torment.

God did not do that; those who "rewrote" the Word of God by changing the meaning of the original text did that.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Rendering aionios in Matthew 25:46 as age ending would result in horrible
theology.

If aionios means that it will end one day, then the Believer has no hope whatsoever.

What a sad thing to hope for aionios life only to have it end one day.

The believer has all hope, as long as he/she continues to believe.

What a sad thing to not believe in the freedom of the will, something God endowed all his sentient creatures with and never takes away.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I would still like someone to say with a straight face and no fingers crossed that an age is equal to an eternity. Everyone knows that it is not.

About annihilation, the topic of the thread -- I don't believe in this, either, but it is to be preferred to a belief that teaches an eternity of punishment for acts committed during the length of a human life span. But Jesus didn't teach either.

Now I do believe that unrepentant sinners pay for their sins, and the length of the payment is up to God and them. God being both merciful and just, the length of time of the payment will be both merciful and just. And this is not retributive but corrective.

This is the original teaching of Jesus, the scriptures, and the early fathers. Eternal torment came in by way of paganism and Latin Christianity, Latin Christianity being the spawn of a lot of detestable doctrine.

 

[Van]

reply

No arguement from me.....annihilation is a pretty permanent punishment. If something else is required, i.e. torment, I am confident God will mete it out in perfect measure.

Recompense for misdeeds, i.e. torment in the afterlife, for volitional sins seems soundly based on scripture. Otherwise, some folks would not find the afterlife more tolerable than others. I think you need to address, but perhaps not post, the Biblical basis for questioning the fact that the lost face torment in the afterlife. Just saying....

 

[Van]

Reply

Since the Greek word kolasis originally was translated as pain or torment, I'd have to say annihilation is not punishment at all.

The root word, kolazo, means to prune, restrain, check, and thus confine over and against torment. Hence eternal punishment could be eternal separation from God, destruction with eternal consequences.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yeshua1

You posted....

God is Holy, Judge, so He MUST punish sin !

Nobody is denying that.

NOT because He loves doing that to people, but that He must do the right thing at all times!

And you think it is right for God to barbacue a person eternally, with no ending at all, for ever and ever and ever and ever...for the sins he commited for, say..27 years?

Lets say you have a son or daughter (age 9) who did something deserving of punishment.
Lets say they skipped school one day so they could play in the park all day long.

Would it be "right" for you to very very tightly strap your child to a tree in the back yard, and leave them that way for...30 days and nights? I mean...they have to be punished? But would that be fair and just?

God is right in his judgements, as does seem to be the concept of God punishing each one on individual basis, as some get few stripes, others many!

I agree. So, with that scripture in mind, why not take another look at the "eternal torture" deal?

 

[kyredneck]

I would still like someone to say with a straight face and no fingers crossed that an age is equal to an eternity. Everyone knows that it is not.

About annihilation, the topic of the thread -- I don't believe in this, either, but it is to be preferred to a belief that teaches an eternity of punishment for acts committed during the length of a human life span. But Jesus didn't teach either......

Our little finite minds can't even begin to fathom infinity, yet 'the majority' tosses it around like it's a throw pillow. It has become the norm to insert eternal consequences into a passage on a whim.

'To hell with them' could be the motto of 'the many' today. Reminds me of the Queen of Hearts from Alice In Wonder Land, her most famous line which she repeats often is "Off with their heads!"

And you are correct, an age is NOT equal to eternity.

 

[preacher4truth]

It blows my mind that people have a problem with the justice of God, (or actually with God Himself) specifically in the aspect of eternal damnation being meted out to the non-elect. Typically there is also a problem with Gods choosing from the same. Other dogmatic teachings also take a slide along with these two former errors.

Someone griped about God eternally damning someone due to their 'only' being a sinner 27 years? What does time have to do with it? Be warned, God does as He says and as He wills.

This replying against the Potter in the 21st century is akin to 'nothing new under the Sun.'

We either trust Him, or plainly we do not trust Him.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Preacher4truth posted....

It blows my mind that people have a problem with the justice of God, (or actually with God Himself) specifically in the aspect of eternal damnation being meted out to the non-elect.

Well, thats easy for YOU to say, since you are one of the *lucky ones* who are "suposedly" one of the lucky "elect".

Someone griped about God eternally damning someone due to their 'only' being a sinner 27 years?

That would be me. :wavey:

What does time have to do with it?

Let me explain it to you..

We all know that that those who refuse Christ will will be consinged to hell, while those who choose Christ will be saved. We all agree on that.

Now God declares to us that He is rightious, holy, longsuffering, fair, just benevolent, full of grace and mercifull.

Since those are His self identfied charicteristics, than we can assume with great boldness that He will consistantly manifest those attributes.

So, regarding all of those who choose to reject the Light of Christ, and choose darkness instead, God will give them what they chose.

They will be consigned to Hell. And thier will surely be the "gnashing of teeth"

But will they spend all of eternity,forever and ever, and ever and ever and ever, on and on forever without end, being tortured endlessly for all eternity??

Not if God truly is rightious, holy, longsuffering, fair, just benevolent, full of grace and mercifull. That would be "overkill" beyond all comprehention.

Hell surely exists, and people will surely will be in hell. But in my estimation not eternally.

And let me add that it has been shown, by a couple of other posters, that the original languages DO NOT support eternal torment.

Hope that helps.

 

[Yeshua1]

many here say that they believe that the Lord alone saves, that he is sovereign in salvation, but think that we still can see that they really mean the final decision was placed by God in their hands whether to come or not!

And think that some here still see God "owing; us salvation, as its not fair to exclude any from getting saved! Or Judging /condemning some as a Holy Judge!

 

[Yeshua1]

hell/lake of fire will be permanent...

the unsaved will be condemned there BECAUSE of the Holiness and mercies of God, as by allowing them to forever live will be preferred to being 'snuffed out", and he will judge perfectly, as one deserving more will receive more!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yeshua1 posted....

many here say that they believe that the Lord alone saves, that he is sovereign in salvation, but think that we still can see that they really mean the final decision was placed by God in their hands whether to come or not!

You mean like this...

"Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!

And this...

John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has
eternal life, but whoever rejects (does not obey)
the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath
remains on him.”

And these...

Rev. 22:17 “whoever is thirsty, let him
come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free
gift of the water of life)’

Josh. 24:15 “choose for yourselves this day
whom you will serve”

1 Kings 18:2 1 Elijah went before the people
and said, “How long will you waver between
two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him;
but if Baal is God, follow him.”

I could go on and on of course, but you get the idea.



You again....

And think that some here still see God "owing; us salvation, as its not fair to exclude any from getting saved!

God does not "owe" us anything.

God graciously OFFERS every person the opportunity to be saved.

We choose life (Christ), or death.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

It's quite ironic to see Biblical literalists who so staunchly contend for the literal and original meaning and interpretation of other passages of scripture unwilling to do so when it comes to this issue of hell. It is an incontrovertible fact that "aion/aionios" does not mean eternity or eternal. An "aion" is an age, as is our English derivative word "eon", and an age is not an eternity. No amount of twisting can change this scriptural truth. That is the original meaning of the term; it is what Jesus taught, and what the early church and fathers believed. The facts about how an eternal hell overtook this teaching are as I have stated.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

hell/lake of fire will be permanent...

the unsaved will be condemned there BECAUSE of the Holiness and mercies of God, as by allowing them to forever live will be preferred to being 'snuffed out", and he will judge perfectly, as one deserving more will receive more!

That is about as perverted a statement as I have ever seen. So frying a soul forever is due to the mercy of God. Astounding!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The root word, kolazo, means to prune, restrain, check, and thus confine over and against torment. Hence eternal punishment could be eternal separation from God, destruction with eternal consequences.

Exactly. And why does one prune a tree?

 

[agedman]

Exactly. And why does one prune a tree?

Sometimes to make firewood.