didn't Effeminate mean gay today? as gay meant something totally different back then?
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Any one else think I slandered the Niv here?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
didn't Effeminate mean gay today? as gay meant something totally different back then?
OK, I'll let you prove to me that the phrase "abusers of themselves with mankind" was a universally recognized term for homosexuality in the 1600's. Have at it.
Apparently.
Tyndale's
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do ye not remember how that the vnrighteous shall not inheret the kyngdome of God? Be not deceaved. For nether fornicators nether worshyppers of ymages nether whormongers nether weaklinges nether abusars of them selves with the mankynde
Bishop's
1 Corinthians 6:9 Knowe ye not that the vnrighteous shall not inherite the kingdome of God? Be not deceaued: neither fornicatours, nor idolatours, nor adulterers, nor weaklinges, nor abusers of them selues with mankinde,
And then there's the Geneva.
(Does anyone know what a buggerer is?)
Knowe yee not that the vnrighteous shall not inherite the kingdome of God? Be not deceiued: neither fornicatours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggerers,
For your enlightenment:
http://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/diction.htm
[FONT=arial,helvetica] In the following selection of definitions from dictionaries published during the eighteenth century, the most common words relating to homosexuality are "sodomy" and "buggery", which of course is no surprise. I think we can safely assume that "buggery" is widely understood as meaning anal intercourse between males, but the word "sodomy" seems to have a rather broader meaning, i.e. sex of any sort between males.[/FONT]
Ewwww! I think I was better off UN-enlightend! :laugh:
Sighhhh...I guess we just have to take ITL's word for it and believe everything that is said in those weblinks. Oh well....I guess their word is as good as anybody's. Sighhhh! It HAS to be true...it's on the Internet!
Bro.Greg:saint:
I have shared this old info over the years here. Some people are not reviewing the archives! King James was not the most "manly" of men shall we say?
Well I suppose I will refer you to Amy's post. Aside from that I will say you just do not get it. Most likely suffering from "imustberightitis". It is a fairly dangerous disease which causes one to take and push bad positions to the point of embarrassment and complete humiliation.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Just For The Record....
Rev...I have a feeling you'll agree with me on this.....I have NEVER had even the slightest bit of difficulty understanding the meaning of the KJV english on this particular topic.
Also...I did a little checking...the words heterosexual and homosexual are not even words that existed until modern times. They don't even appear in Noah Webster's 1828 edition dictionary. I suspect that those words didn't come into modern usage until sometime after 1898 or 1910 with the first few editions of the Merriam-Webster New Collegiate Dictionary. It could have been even more recently than that....not sure.
Frankly...if I wanted to know the original meaning of ANY WORD found in the Bible I wouldn't depend on the new Bibles. Our language is being steadily corrupted and has been for some time. Before you know it...if you don't talk or write in "texting" language you won't know how to talk or communicate very well. Frankly...at my age...I'm content to continue my existence as a dinosaur...oh yeah...THAT is a modern word too! I'm actually a "terrible lizard".:laugh: I love my KJV and will die before I'll ever change.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Rev...I have a feeling you'll agree with me on this.....I have NEVER had even the slightest bit of difficulty understanding the meaning of the KJV english on this particular topic.
Also...I did a little checking...the words heterosexual and homosexual are not even words that existed until modern times. They don't even appear in Noah Webster's 1828 edition dictionary. I suspect that those words didn't come into modern usage until sometime after 1898 or 1910 with the first few editions of the Merriam-Webster New Collegiate Dictionary. It could have been even more recently than that....not sure.
Frankly...if I wanted to know the original meaning of ANY WORD found in the Bible I wouldn't depend on the new Bibles. Our language is being steadily corrupted and has been for some time. Before you know it...if you don't talk or write in "texting" language you won't know how to talk or communicate very well. Frankly...at my age...I'm content to continue my existence as a dinosaur...oh yeah...THAT is a modern word too! I'm actually a "terrible lizard".:laugh: I love my KJV and will die before I'll ever change.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Well the real issue is someone likes to think they have knowledge no on else has and they can prove everyone else wrong. So they take ridiculous positions.
saturneptune
New Member
So who is your greater moralistic historical figure, King James or John Calvin?
I see, attack the person, not the position. Got it.
attack the position, but with more supportable bullets!
well, one is a gay king , and another is one of the greatest teachers god ever gifted to his church!
Who would you pick?
back to the OP...
Would you all agree with me that I did not slander, make lies about the Niv, just a difference in opinions regarding how well it translated in the revision certain areas?
I suppose you are trying to say who was the most godly. The choice is no contest...John Calvin hands down.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Great Teacher???
No real reliable proof James was actually gay...remember..word has it that in those days "portly" women were considered beautiful and the skinny ones ....not so much! their standards of measurement on people and relationships was much different them. Remember David and Jonathan? They had a great deal of affection for one another but gay?......no way! Our current world and culture has corrupted nearly EVERYTHING that was once pure and proper.
As to John Calvin...great teacher??? You must be kidding. That man and his twisted and divisive teachings have caused great harm to the church. Godly men don't have others put to death.....and that is just the "tip of the iceberg" of what is wrong with some of his damnable doctrines. As usual there is just enough truth in what he taught to suck men and women into his deceptions. Thank God I never drank THAT koolaid. That is my statement on the matter. I will not argue it further because I have better things to do with my valuable time. There are others that are far more able at doing that than I.
Bro.Greg:saint:
No real reliable proof James was actually gay...remember..word has it that in those days "portly" women were considered beautiful and the skinny ones ....not so much! their standards of measurement on people and relationships was much different them. Remember David and Jonathan? They had a great deal of affection for one another but gay?......no way! Our current world and culture has corrupted nearly EVERYTHING that was once pure and proper.
As to John Calvin...great teacher??? You must be kidding. That man and his twisted and divisive teachings have caused great harm to the church. Godly men don't have others put to death.....and that is just the "tip of the iceberg" of what is wrong with some of his damnable doctrines. As usual there is just enough truth in what he taught to suck men and women into his deceptions. Thank God I never drank THAT koolaid. That is my statement on the matter. I will not argue it further because I have better things to do with my valuable time. There are others that are far more able at doing that than I.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Think that his teachings regarding the soveignty and Grace of God some of the best stuuf the Church ever had, but would also say that much of what he gets blamed for was due to people taking his teachings and making them more extreme!
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Don't Need Him...I have God's Word
I believed God was sovereign over all His creation and a God of unfathomable Grace long before I ever heard of John Calvin. With what I now know about him and his "Institutes" and the divisiveness and division they now cause in the body of Christ, I'm thankful I never got sucked into that trap. Sorry...I know that is blunt but I have to say it as I believe it. I am sincerely sad that so many get caught up in that stuff. I have friends with whom it is difficult to enjoy simple fellowship with because everything they believe is colored or clouded with the Calvinist mantras. Very sad. That is ALL I will say about that matter here.
Bro.Greg:saint:
I believed God was sovereign over all His creation and a God of unfathomable Grace long before I ever heard of John Calvin. With what I now know about him and his "Institutes" and the divisiveness and division they now cause in the body of Christ, I'm thankful I never got sucked into that trap. Sorry...I know that is blunt but I have to say it as I believe it. I am sincerely sad that so many get caught up in that stuff. I have friends with whom it is difficult to enjoy simple fellowship with because everything they believe is colored or clouded with the Calvinist mantras. Very sad. That is ALL I will say about that matter here.
Bro.Greg:saint:
AMEN, Brother.
At one point, I thought about studing this issue in depth, when I first learned of it. That is, until I saw, right here on this board, just how much division and venom is displayed by many (not all) of the more outspoken Calvin's supporters.
Educators/scholars, pastors, professing members of the body of Christ who are NOT reflecting the glory of God in their zeal to be right and everybody else is wrong. Much like the KJB issue, it appears that satan is harvesting much fruit from those who enjoy keeping these two battles raging. To promote division instead of promoting unity in Christ.
In my youth, I saw first hand how much damage is done in the church, when shouting deacons fight over the color of carpet. When their opinions mattered more than the impact their fights had on people like myself. As I've stated before, that's one of the reasons why I drifted away from the church for so many years. The bitterness of the fruit they bore left a long lingering aftertaste.
Very similar to the fruit that, at least for right now, I don't feel led to taste again by fully immersing myself in a full study of Calvin's OPINION of Almighty God. In due time, I'll learn the truth from the author of Truth. That's what's most important to me.
saturneptune
New Member
Yes, it was people's extreme views that caused him to write for seperation of church and state at the same time he formed a theocracy in Geneva that tortured and executed many over theologoical beliefs. It was also the people's extreme views that caused him to have a hand in murdering Michael Servetus. Those extreme views also forced him to advocate infant baptism.