ANY prominent Christians teachers/pastors Hold to Modulism?

[Yeshua1]

Correction: God is One Being shared by three Persons. I understand what you are trying to say, but you need to distinguish between being (ontology) and person (identity).

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same ontological being. The distinction is in the persons that exhaustively share the one being of God. Only God can have His singular being shared by more than one person. We only have our being shared by one person. Those who are otherwise live in rubber rooms.

Thanks!

You are correct in this difference, as though subtle, not making this distinction can lead one to either errors of Modulism or tri trinity!

 

[Iconoclast]

It is the same as the Mormons saying Jesus was created. It is another God and another gospel.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[12strings]

I'm curious, do you make a clear distinction between Yahweh and Elohim? If so, what is it?

no, why?

btw, do you teach those around you to ask you father self for things in the name of your son self,

 

[Greektim]

Thanks!

You are correct in this difference, as though subtle, not making this distinction can lead one to either errors of Modulism or tri trinity!

I'm not saying the ontological/identity distinction is wrong. But it does seem to philosophize and theologize eloquent to define things in western terms of philosophy (platonic mostly) when these concepts were probably not on the minds of the writers of Scripture.

This is partly what I struggle with. We try to explain things so finitely that we have to use jargon that no one understands. Yet the nuance and semantic is important to clarify. At the same time, the seeming paradoxes of 3 in 1 for the ANEs was nothing in their minds. What are we to make of all this?

And does it not seem that we who draw a sharp distinction between the 3 persons (identity) lead to tri-theism? Isn't that the seeming result? I have tried to avoid modalism so much, that this is where it might take me. Anyone else feel this tension?

(To clarify, I am a strict monotheist)

 

[kyredneck]

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

When Jesus referred to the Father, He referred to a Person. When Jesus spoke to the Father, He was speaking to a Person just as such dialogue indicates. Jesus was not speaking to Himself, He was speaking to another person.

Do you as "Larry the father of my children" speak to "Larry the son of my father" as one person to another person? If your reply is a humorous allusion to "talking to myself" in a schizophrenic fashion, would you really seriously suggest that John the Apostle intended his readers to understand the language of Jesus as speaking to Himself?

Excellent point, thank you.

Bear in mind though, you are looking at an extremely 'brief' snapshot of time here during which the Word was in the form of flesh with it's constraints. I'm not convinced my analogy of father, son, and husband ROLES is so out of line with the order of things eternal:

And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jn 17:5

Which falls short of reality concerning God.

An egg is only one egg but is made up of the yolk, the shell, and the whites. Each serves individual purposes but there is only one egg. Jesus prays to the Father(John 17:1) which means they were in two different places at the same time. Jesus said that He and the Father were both working (John 5:17). Jesus said that when He left the Holy Spirit would come (John 16:7). These passages alone show that there are three different entities involved in the Godhead.

Thanks. Still, you're drawing an opinion of the eternal Trinity from a very brief temporal snapshot.

 

[kyredneck]

I'm as Trinitarian as anyone else. Much of what I've posted here is playing the devil's advocate in order to draw out comments. I do however believe we will see only One in eternity.

(mandym, do you know what the white in bird poop is?)

 

[HankD]

Perhaps we will see the one but perceive the three.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

I am still trying to figureout the part about jesus turning everything back over to the father, and then God shall be in all...

With it be the trinity dissolving into the Father than?

 

[HankD]

I am still trying to figureout the part about jesus turning everything back over to the father, and then God shall be in all...

With it be the trinity dissolving into the Father than?

Don't think so - God is eternal and unchanging.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Don't think so - God is eternal and unchanging.

HankD

His nature doesn't ever change, but didn't tGod the Son change by adding human nature in himself when He incarnated as God/man Yeshua?

 

[HankD]

His nature doesn't ever change, but didn't tGod the Son change by adding human nature in himself when He incarnated as God/man Yeshua?

No, the Logos is God, a spirit, He has a body it is not essential to His being.

HankD

 

[Alive in Christ]

Kyredneck, you said...

Admittedly, I know extremely little of Modalism, but I fail to see a serious threat to the religion of Jesus Christ in it.

Good for you. You are correct.

There is no threat at all. The modalists simply view the triune nature of God differently than we do.

It simply gives the pharisees another opportunity to feel superior, and to point the finger of accusation.

And on and on it goes...

And by the way, I am a fully convinced trinitarian.

 

[jaigner]

As God being One in three seperate roles, but still same person each time?

TD Jakes at one time was one, not sure if still is, any one else known to hold such views?

Modulism? Seriously, JesusChaser?

 

[OldRegular]

Is 'Trinity' found in the bible?

'Godhead' is used twice as is here:

for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, Col 2:9

Compare:
http://bible.cc/colossians/2-9.htm

When we get to heaven will we see three distinct entities or one?

I say one.

Take a look at Revelations 4&5!

 

[OldRegular]

Kyredneck, you said...

Good for you. You are correct.

There is no threat at all. The modalists simply view the triune nature of God differently than we do.

It simply gives the pharisees another opportunity to feel superior, and to point the finger of accusation.

And on and on it goes...

And by the way, I am a fully convinced trinitarian.

Modalism is a heresy dealt with in the early Church!

Modalism http://carm.org/modalism

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.

Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

In the Book of Revelation we see, perhaps as no where else in Scripture, the Triune nature of God clearly revealed and emphasized, particularly in the Apostle John’s vision of the throne room of God as recorded in Chapters 4 & 5.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Old regular...

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God.

It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms

I have been aware of everything you posted there for many many years. I know what they believe and of course I believe that they are not as accurate as we are regarding the triune nature of God.

However, The oneness people CLEARLY have an understanding of the "3-ness" of God, as we do...even though it is not as accurate as our view.

For that reason I do not put them in the same class as heretical cults such as the Jehovahs wittnesses, mormons, etc etc.

Modalism is a heresy dealt with in the early Church!

I have the scriptures as my only guide, as the scriptures teach us to do. I dont heed the "early church"

 

[Iconoclast]

I have the scriptures as my only guide, as the scriptures teach us to do. I dont heed the "early church"

yes....and Mr.Magoo had those really thick glasses to help him drive in traffic,and walk around in the city:thumbsup::thumbsup:

He saw just fine also

 

[Alive in Christ]

Great post there, Iconoclast

 

[Iconoclast]

Great post there, Iconoclast

Thank you brother:laugh::laugh::wavey::laugh:

 

[mandym]

Modalism is a heresy

And an extreme one at that. A modalistic god is not the one true and living God.