ANY prominent Christians teachers/pastors Hold to Modulism?

[Alive in Christ]

Originally Posted by Alive in Christ...

Great post there, Iconoclast

Posted by Iconoclast....

Thank you brother

Posted by me, Alive in Christ...

No no...thank YOU brother!

:wavey::wavey:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Regarding modalism...

And an extreme one at that. A modalistic god is not the one true and living God.

Modalist's certainly articulate the triune nature of God differently then we do. And I do believe our articulation is more acurate then theirs is.

But I would have no problem having fellowship with them if invited, as opposed to groups like the Jehovahs wittnesses, or Mormons. where I would refuse.

I consider the "oneness" folks to be brothers and sisters in Christ, who are in error in at least 1 issue (this one) as oposed to the truly cultic groups. (JW's. mormons, etc.)

 

[mandym]

I consider the "oneness" folks to be brothers and sisters in Christ,

I do not, they are in fact the same as Mormons and JW's. Simply expressing three modes does not communicate a Triune God in any sense of the word.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mandym...

I posted that I consider "oneness" groups to be brothers who are in error, and you said...

I do not, they are in fact the same as Mormons and JW's. Simply expressing three modes does not communicate a Triune God in any sense of the word.

You are entitled to your opinion

 

[mandym]

Mandym...

I posted that I consider "oneness" groups to be brothers who are in error, and you said...




You are entitled to your opinion

uh huh, I am as all are and modalism is completely unorthodox and widely rejected and understood as complete heresy.

 

[AresMan]

I do not, they are in fact the same as Mormons and JW's. Simply expressing three modes does not communicate a Triune God in any sense of the word.

The oneness people are "closer" to the truth in that they at least do not make the Son and the Spirit ontologically distinct and lesser than the Father, but I would say that the oneness position, just like the JW and Mormon positions, is based on the same human rationalism ("It doesn't make logical sense according to my human reasoning; therefore, it cannot be true").

 

[mandym]

The oneness people are "closer" to the truth in that they at least do not make the Son and the Spirit ontologically distinct and lesser than the Father, but I would say that the oneness position, just like the JW and Mormon positions, is based on the same human rationalism ("It doesn't make logical sense according to my human reasoning; therefore, it cannot be true").

They do not believe that there is three distinct persons. They believe that there is one single person who changed modes. That is heresy and no closer to the truth than anything else. In fact modalism was part of early Mormonism.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mandym...

I am a scripture guy.

Please produce scripture that clearly informs us of the exact, precise articulation of the triune nature of God, with the slightest deviation calling for someone being damed to hell, of at least branded a heritic.

I will reject the early church, the church fathers, the catholic church Arminius, Calvin, etc etc etc, and currant theolgions

Scripture and scripture alone.

(And let me repeat..I believe that the articulation of the "trinity" that we all here hold to here is closer to hitting the target then the oneness veiw. I am a full on Trinitarian)

I look forward to seeing your scriptures.

 

[mandym]

Mandym...

I am a scripture guy.

Please produce scripture that clearly informs us of the exact, precise articulation of the triune nature of God, with the slightest deviation calling for someone being damed to hell, of at least branded a heritic.

I will reject the early church, the church fathers, the catholic church Arminius, Calvin, etc etc etc, and currant theolgions

Scripture and scripture alone.

(And let me repeat..I believe that the articulation of the "trinity" that we all here hold to here is closer to hitting the target then the oneness veiw. I am a full on Trinitarian)

I look forward to seeing your scriptures.

I don't really care what you will reject. No doubt it will be out of convenience. Your error is to suggest that modalism is only a small deviation from the truth. This is in fact completely wrong.

There is a vast difference between one god acting in three different manifestations and one God who has three different persons. The difference is so vast it makes up two completely different gods. That much should be obvious to reasonable people.

Modalism is another gospel with another God who has another Jesus just as Mormonism has, JW's have and Islam has.


Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mandym...

Brother, thats about what expected.

You had no support from the scriptures.


Maybe this will encourage you to search the scriptures from now on with more of an attitude of "How can I extend grace in this situation", rather then coming in with a "who can I comdemn" stance.

God bless.

 

[mandym]

Mandym...

Brother, thats about what expected.

You had no support from the scriptures.


Maybe this will encourage you to search the scriptures from now on with more of an attitude of "How can I extend grace in this situation", rather then coming in with a "who can I comdemn" stance.

God bless.

This is what I expected. Whatever is convenient for you.

 

[Iconoclast]

uh huh, I am as all are and modalism is completely unorthodox and widely rejected and understood as complete heresy.

correct.....:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

 

[mandym]

For reasonable folks scripture is clear:

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

If we do not believe in the God of the Bible then they are cursed.

Jesus was sent by the Father ( Matt 10:40; 15:24; Mark 9:37; Luke 4:18; John 4:34 ) Jesus prayed to the Father ( John 17 ) Jesus said, while He was on earth, that the Father was in heaven ( Matt 5:16 ). The Holy Spirit is also separate from Jesus and the Father ( Mat 3:16 ).

Scripture on this issue is very clear and unambiguous. Modalism teaches another god and another jesus. It is therefore another gospel and those who teach it are cursed.

 

[Iconoclast]

:thumbsup:

If we do not believe in the God of the Bible then they are cursed.

Jesus was sent by the Father ( Matt 10:40; 15:24; Mark 9:37; Luke 4:18; John 4:34 ) Jesus prayed to the Father ( John 17 ) Jesus said, while He was on earth, that the Father was in heaven ( Matt 5:16 ). The Holy Spirit is also separate from Jesus and the Father ( Mat 3:16 ).

Scripture on this issue is very clear and unambiguous. Modalism teaches another god and another jesus. It is therefore another gospel and those who teach it are cursed.

of course.....:thumbsup::laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

For reasonable folks scripture is clear:



If we do not believe in the God of the Bible then they are cursed.

Jesus was sent by the Father ( Matt 10:40; 15:24; Mark 9:37; Luke 4:18; John 4:34 ) Jesus prayed to the Father ( John 17 ) Jesus said, while He was on earth, that the Father was in heaven ( Matt 5:16 ). The Holy Spirit is also separate from Jesus and the Father ( Mat 3:16 ).

Scripture on this issue is very clear and unambiguous. Modalism teaches another god and another jesus. It is therefore another gospel and those who teach it are cursed.

I will second that!

 

[kyredneck]

For reasonable folks scripture is clear:

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

If we do not believe in the God of the Bible then they are cursed.

Jesus was sent by the Father ( Matt 10:40; 15:24; Mark 9:37; Luke 4:18; John 4:34 ) Jesus prayed to the Father ( John 17 ) Jesus said, while He was on earth, that the Father was in heaven ( Matt 5:16 ). The Holy Spirit is also separate from Jesus and the Father ( Mat 3:16 ).

Scripture on this issue is very clear and unambiguous. Modalism teaches another god and another jesus. It is therefore another gospel and those who teach it are cursed.

I'm reasonable; these passages have ZILCH to do with Modalism, they're in reference to JUDAIZERS. (which dispensationalism is chocked full of)

 

[glazer1972]

United Pentecostals and United Apostolics hold to this view.

 

[12strings]

Here is what the traditional, orthadox understanding of The Trinity Says:

1. God exists as 3 distinct persons
2. Each person is fully God
3. There is One God.

We believe each of these are taught in scripture:
#1 is true, based on the son praying to the father, the father sending the son, the son sending the spirit, the father creating the world through the son, the son being "with God" from the beginning.
#2 is true, based on many passages ascribing diety to Jesus, and a few select passages equating the H.S. with God.
#3 is true based on the entire Old and New Testament teaching about God and idolatry.

Beyond this, there is room for disgreement about how this actually works.

But, Tri-theists reject #3, Mormons reject #2, and Modalists reject #1. For them to do this, they must ignore or explain away the many passages where the persons of the trinity relate & talk to each other, and "send" each other places.

If modalism is true, there is also the issue of Jesus taking the father's wrath for our sin, and crying out, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me.


Where I'm at right now is this: I believe there can be oneness/modalists who simply have not looked carefully at the scriptures, and misunderstand how the trinity works, and they are true Christians...

But...It seems that to maintain the modalist position in the face of the scriptures that show the son's relationship to the father, one has to disregard a multitude of scriptures, and one cannot also explain how Jesus took the punishment for our sins...and such a continued rejection of scripture would give us good reason to wonder if they are truly a believer who is willing to let scripture shape his/her beliefs.

That said, still, I would question them more about their gospel beliefs than their trinity beliefs to find out if they were a christian.

 

[annsni]

Where I'm at right now is this: I believe there can be oneness/modalists who simply have not looked carefully at the scriptures, and misunderstand how the trinity works, and they are true Christians...

But...It seems that to maintain the modalist position in the face of the scriptures that show the son's relationship to the father, one has to disregard a multitude of scriptures, and one cannot also explain how Jesus took the punishment for our sins...and such a continued rejection of scripture would give us good reason to wonder if they are truly a believer who is willing to let scripture shape his/her beliefs.

That said, still, I would question them more about their gospel beliefs than their trinity beliefs to find out if they were a christian.

Of this I fully agree. I see new believers who have just heard carp in their life before Christ and take some as "gospel". We've dealt with people who have watched Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen and believe that to be what Christianity is about. Everyone has heard the "God is like an egg" or "God is like water" analogies and when we point out the shortcomings in those ideas, they seem shocked. But this is where discipleship comes in. They need to be taught just as if they never heard any of it before.

 

[agedman]

As God being One in three seperate roles, but still same person each time?

TD Jakes at one time was one, not sure if still is, any one else known to hold such views?

This thread sure did stray a bit.

Other than TD Jakes, Mormons, JW... The question ask if any CHRISTIAN teacher/pastors hold to this view has been left unanswered.

Can someone provide an actual list???

A list of names like:

Hyles,
Rice,
Jones,
McArthur,
Spurgeon,
Arminius,
Calvin,


That is what I expected to see, but haven't found on this thread.

Please don't take the list of names as anything more than an example of a list! :laugh: